Tagged: 5000 year cycle

Cyclic History—you can have your own proofs! – By: BK. T.D Joseph

Article by: BK. T. D. Joseph, Bangalore, India tdjaum(AT)gmail.com – If you have questions or remarks about this article, please contact the author.

Godly gyan teaches that history repeats itself every 5000 years. A listener may object asking: Is history only 5000 years old? No, Godly gyan speaks about repetition of history, not about its age. When history repeats itself every 5000 years, its longevity is simply incalculable. Of course, one is always welcome to ask: How can I be sure that history repeats itself?

Turning to history books may not help as history writing itself began in the second half of the Kalpa (cycle of 5000 years) when mankind began to be ruled by “lust, anger and greed.” (Gita 16:21) This time-factor helps us to have a balanced approach to the written history. Often, history is written to suit the purpose of its writer or the Authority that appoints him for the job. When I studied history in the school, Aryan invasion of India [which had exerted tremendous influence on India’s social set-up] was part of our syllabus. Now it is learned that such a thing has never happened, it is a myth.This is true of other branches of science too. When some scientists presented Piltdown Man as the greatest proof for evolution theory, later other scientists proved it as hoax. Whatever the scientists say need not be scientific, just as whatever a joker says need not be a joke! You can see a list of HOAXES in any Encyclopedia.

Apostle Paul, a great Greek scholar—secular and religious—who wrote 14 New Testament books of the Bible, warns us against putting blind faith in whatever we hear or read: “I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard!” (Acts 20:29-31) If this is the case with religious writing, you can imagine how reliable it will be the so called secular history writing!

So, is the situation hopeless? No, the same Bible authorizes us to do something in parallel: “Test them all; hold on to what is good [originally kalos, Greek, meaning inherently and intrinsically good], reject every kind of evil.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21, 22) Hence we are under obligation to take only what our REASON concludes as something inherently and intrinsically good. For example, we may read in Evolution & History books that homo sapiens appeared on earth lakhs of years ago. Here we need to use our reason: How many years needed for a couple to have 4 children? 8 years. Let us give 150 years! First couple produced 4 children in 150 years, and they died. These 4 children [or 2 couples] produced 4 children each in another 150 years. If we calculate like this, it would take only 4800 years to reach more than 8.5 Billion population, which is more than the current population of the whole Earth.

Let us see what happens in front of our eyes, and use the power of our reason to arrive at a firm conclusion. We will do something like ocean-examination—by tasting some drops from here and there, we conclude its water is salty. Similarly, let us take some samples of human behavior:

1) Everyone knows that possession is an illusion; and this is the most-attested truth in the world. One has to die leaving behind everything he thought as belonging to him—assets, relatives, fame etc. Yet, people go on repeating the same old habit of accumulating to their maximum capacity, and believe they own them.

2) Everyone knows prevention is better than cure. Yet people, in general, prefer cure. This explains why the number of diseases and hospitals are increasing! This is true of even Governments who know how to prevent wars, yet prepare themselves to win the war through fighting it out at any cost! Both the rulers and the ruled have been repeating this wasteful act.

3) Everyone knows happiness comes from helping others without expecting anything in return. The more unselfish one is the happier he will be. Yet we find individuals and nations repeating exploitation of others. Golden Rule is replaced with another rule: ‘Those who have gold rule.’

4) People love blaming others when something goes wrong, yet hate receiving it. Experience has taught everyone that it is futile to try to change others whereas it is very much feasible to change oneself. Yet people repeat the folly of blaming others and trying to transform others.

5) Even when ideal persons appear on the world scene, people still want to continue with their old habits. For example, Buddha, who was born to a king, understood the valuelessness of pursuing power and pleasure. And we have modern examples of billionaires who turn philanthropists later. Yet majority want to repeat their materialistic passion.

6) Whenever someone, with good-intention, tried to change the corrupt system, he has been shaved off from the face of the earth. Killing the messenger if message is not liked is being repeated with no let-up.

7) Religions have correctly identified egoism as the opposite of spirituality. Yet they are not prepared to merge and become one world-religion for the whole humanity, making the worship simple and thus avoiding all confusion and colossal wastage. This means religions themselves have become a BIG EGO, doing everything within its power to safeguard its identity, which is the very essence of ego! Thus all religions have been repeating this irony of asking their members to fight ego while they themselves remain fostering it!

Don’t these samples of human behavior prove that history repeats itself?

So, what would these attitudes of human-beings lead to, once again? We will inevitably cause/ invoke another world war and catastrophe that will bring us back to the beginning of the next cycle of time. History repeats itself!

The 5000 years cycle and world population estimates

It is said that a picture is worth a million words… or just a thousand? Anyway let me play western scientist and take away “0s”to fit my theory.

You can see 3 important pictures about world population in this article.

The first picture (displayed by Google but not made by them as a disclosure) happily shows us that we have grown from 3 billion people to 7 billion people in 51 years!

That is despite 2 major world wars, famine, lack of resources, etc. which is reasonable to expect as population grows and entropy increases.

Now, keep that in mind when someone asks how is it possible for the cycle to be only 5000 years.
If you read this post about when “man appeared on Earth” according to European historians, Man appeared “ indisputably” based on the fossils that they have found 2 million years ago! 🙂
Here is the link: http://www.bigsiteofamazingfacts.com/when-did-humans-appear-on-earth

Please note this: “A fossil skull fragment discovered in England is the oldest known example of modern-day humans: a 300,000-year-old Homo sapien.”

Remember what I mentioned that science is made in the UK and the USA? 🙂 I wonder why they didn’t discover that in Africa (where man appeared) or in Asia, where the largest population resides?

Ladies and Gentlemen: How is it possible for human beings to have appeared on this Earth 2 MILLION YEARS AGO and at the same time had a population of only 1 BILLION human beings up to 1830, when we can go in 51 years from 3 BILLION to 7 BILLION human beings?

I am not a rocket scientist, but I recognize when something smells “fishy.” This smells “fishy” to me.

Of course, do not ask a scientist how man appeared on Earth? Or how everything started? For that would be very amusing to hear.


Now, if you please give your attention into the second graphic below, you will see the top countries with the largest population in the world. Note that we know that Pakistan was part of India; therefore, India by all means has the largest population in the world. Now, How is it possible for the countries who have the largest population in the world to be in Asia and yet, scientists think that “man appeared in Africa,” but yet we see only 1 country from Africa (Nigeria) as being number 8? Mystery huh?
Is it possible that Indian people reproduce faster than Africans, even though Africans had 1.5 million years in their advantage (since man appeared there) to procreate?

That smells “fishy” to me… 🙂


On the last graphic below, Man needed not 2 million years but now 50,000 years to get to 1 BILLION people. (what happened to the other 1.9 million years?)
How is it possible for the population to grow 4 billion in 51 years from 1960, but yet only 1 Billion “in the beginning” having more than 1.5 million years to reproduce like rabbits, for TV wasn’t invented yet? 🙂

That smells “fishy” to me….

Dear souls,
When someone disputes to you about how come Brahmin souls think that this cycle is only of 5000 years rather than a linear time of 2 MILLION years, please just show them this article.


Question: how it would be that drama of 5000 year life cycle to be accepted by current cult of scientist openly & everybody in the race , no future strategies by governments which they plan for next many years , no future missions from NASA ? but drama will not allow that , it will be full of mystery untill last time .

Thank you for your question.
Dear soul,

So far, we do not have a way to “prove” the duration of the cycle being 5000 years. Without that proof, the Scientific community will not accept it. Interestingly, there is no “proof” of the millions of years of origin of the Universe, either. There cannot be proof of that because the Universe has always existed as the law of conservation of matter states. ( And as cyclical time logically and rationally shows.)

The point in knowing the duration of “repetition” is not meant so people “just know” another fact, another interesting piece of data to recite. The utility of that information is to make us aware of where time is going.

What we may want to make scientists aware of is that “entropy” in the world keeps increasing. That is something that most probably realize but have not explored. That entropy does not mean “The end,” but the beginning of another “beginning.”

In fact, the knowledge of the cycle of time; should dissipate fear in people and should bring hope; but that is not going to happen if we, the ones who “understand” this knowledge are still afraid of “destruction,” when it is another “beginning.”

Even though we know it, we don’t understand it. To get to the point where our own understanding is accepting and not fearful, would be a good priority before thinking about convincing others. Certainly, the Drama could “allow” this.

Best wishes!

The 5000 year cycle and the quest for proof according to our consciousness…

This article is dedicated with love to those who can understand it…according to the Drama… 🙂

This is a casual talk between Mathias, a wise tree; and Ananda, an “old child” with interesting questions…

Ananda: Mathias, I have a question: If the cycle of time lasts 5000 years and every star in the sky is moving. How is it possible that I will observe the same stars in that same location every 5000 years?
Mathias: You have to have faith…
Ananda: I want to understand. Mathias. 🙂
Mathias: When the cells of an animal are ingested, do those cells form part of the one who eat the animal?
Ananda: We can say that yes and No. The cells are there but they are not the same cells ingested previously for they are transformed into fuel which goes through the circulatory system.
Mathias: Interesting answer, friend.

Mathias: We will talk about quantum physics. Do you know about it?
Ananda: Sure. It is the world of electrons and atoms. Where those can be potentially in many locations until the observer is conscious of them.
Mathias: Something that is in one side can be in another side at the same time?
Ananda: In classical physics that cannot be possible. In quantum physics that is perfectly possible.
Mathias: How does that occur?
Ananda: Because in quantum physics we talk about elements without matter. So there is no location.
Mathias: No? Why not?
Ananda: Because at that small level, there is no matter per say; but waves, energy; so there is no location, ubication.
What is interesting is that something that doesn’t have mass makes up something “bigger” that has mass.
Mathias: Something that doesn’t have locality makes up something that has ubication….
Ananda: Yes!

Mathias: What was your question?
Ananda: If stars move and they have different movement, how is it possible for them to be in the same location in 5000 years?
Mathias: You mean, they have one ubication and one locality….
Ananda: Exactly. How is that possible for the same star to be there in 5000 years?
Mathias: What you have spoken with me doesn’t answer your questions?
Ananda: Yes, but we are talking about stars, celestial bodies which have mass and locality.
Mathias: And that mass and locality is there and is not there…
Ananda: Then we are saying that everything could be real or not real…
Mathias: It depends on what?

Ananda: Depends in my understanding. Which depends on the role which is destined for me to play.
Mathias: Then, if that is destined, then … what you don’t understand?

Ananda: What I don’t understand is how is possible that when I see the sky in 5000 years the starts will be there, exactly at the same position that I see them now?
Mathias: You understand… You just want to put it in words that others can understand.
You have said the exact answer. There is a part that you have said that Mathias does not agree. But it does not mean that you are wrong. It is your perception now who is taking you to this answer. That will change…
Ubication, locality, to be or not to be there; depends on our understanding.
Collective understanding makes up something. That celestial body is also matter. Matter is transforming just like the cells of that animal transforms and make up the blood of the one who ingested the animal and becomes part of him. Those celestial bodies also move. But not just in the way that human’s believe: rotation, translation … That is limited. That is like saying that you can only move by walking or running.

How would you describe the change experienced in meditation? Supposedly you have moved. What has moved? Your consciousness. In that level of consciousness there is a perception.
Human beings nowadays are in a distinct level of consciousness. In that perception there is a location and ubication. When you go back to that location and ubication you will have the perception arranged to that particular location and ubication.
Ananda: I understand now!
Mathias: Your location and ubication has changed.


Thank you for your question!
First, this has been a recurrent question, which I will answer now in a different way. Articles could be searched on the “search articles by keywords” button on this blog.

First, when you disclosed to be a “follower” of traditional history; I have some questions for you:
1) How man appeared on Earth?
2) How is it possible to find ancient cultures who have built “wonders” which cannot be accomplished by today’s standards of technology? ( Machu Picchu, pyramid of Giza, Nazca lines, to mention a few) in a historical “straight line view of time” were newer cultures less capable than older ones?
3) Why history hasn’t been able to come up with the name of the founder of Hinduism? It appears odd to me, since this is one of the oldest if not, the oldest religion in the world?
4) How come Christian Scientists (with a Ph.D after their names in the field of science) have “demonstrated” the issues with carbon dating, and they believe that the world is no older than 6000 years?
5) How is it possible for the “history of the world” to be represented under mostly anglo-saxon, European viewpoint?
6) What makes you believe that what you have learned through history is the “truth”? when in fact, history has been compiled by “viewpoints” of different individuals, and those viewpoints, are as biased as any one else’s.

Those are just a few questions.

Now, Baba’s gyan talks about time being cyclical and repetitive. This is not what Western science and history, preach.
I have written this article https://explore7.files.wordpress.com/2019/12/chickenegg.pdf which describes under the camouflage of answering another question: “who is first the chicken or the egg?,” the cycle of time. As you can see, this article has been understood because it does not “collide” with traditional Christian beliefs and “mainstream cultural” values, but merely uses the support of “science” driven by more Anglo-saxon Ph.Ds from the USA or the UK, with their latest theories. Also note, that this article has been selected as #1 out of 48. That is not a BK website, fyi.

Now, is getting information supported by PH.Ds from Harvard or “Ivy League” universities, the way to get the acceptance of “mainstream”?
Aren’t people able to think by themselves? 🙂
Cyclical time is logical and reasonable and support the laws of science. Linear time is neither logical nor reasonable and does not support the laws of science…

The logical evidence for a shorter amount of time for this cycle of time is given by our current population.
Please read this: http://bkgyan.com/2012/10/05/question-bks-say-that-all-four-yugs-combined-are-of-5000-years-then-in-which-yug-were-dinosaurs-i-am-really-curious-to-know/

That is why I feel that the cycle of time could be 5000 years. There is no way that man has existed for hundred of thousands of years in linear time, as “history” portrays. Plain logic. Plain reason.

Finally, you may want to read this article as well:
where the “mainstream beliefs” of science/history are discussed.

Now… make your own opinion.

As far as I am concerned, I have experienced “deja vues” (which is “proof” of cyclical time) I have experienced accurate readings from “fortune tellers,” (which is another proof of cyclical time) and as one of my experiences early on Baba’s gyan, I had understood the cycle of time through a vision. (http://bkgyan.com/experiences/#comment-968 ) – “Understanding the cycle of time.”

All of that is plenty of support for me. Plenty of evidence. You see?
Then, that makes easy to believe, if Baba mentions about a 5000 year cycle, for me to say: “It is possible.”

Best wishes!

STATEMENT: “I challenge any BK to explain to me why the scholars’ view of history is wrong, and give me the evidence to support the BKs’ concept of the 5000 Year Cycle. “Baba says …” is not evidence.”

This statement was made by Dr. Peter Iveson, when he wrote this article:
which you can read here
which was forwarded to me by a BK asking for my opinion. I decided to go ahead and write this piece about this article and respond to that challenge. Hopefully this article will get into Dr. Iveson’s eyes.

First, let me make clear that Dr. Iveson is basically playing Baba’s gyan on Western “historical research.”

I have problems with that. “History of the world” has been catered towards European view of the world. Let us not forget about Mayans and North American Indians, and South American Incas who strongly believed in a cyclical view of time. According to Christian European history, the year 1492 is when Christopher Columbus “discovered” America. Wrong.
America has a longer history than Europe and if everyone is to recite that 1492 is the year of its discovery, that is in fact a very biased way of looking at history of the world.

With this in mind, let me add that Gregorian calendar is an European invention based on the interests of Christianity.

If we want to disprove Baba’s gyan because a Ph.D or a group of them have gotten together to recollect arbitrary facts about our world, then that is not the right approach. The reason why I say “arbitrary” is because there have been historians/mathematicians who have challenged current historical dates and they have been shut down by the “status quo” Christian faith/the mob of “mainstream.” Here is an example: History:Fiction or Science? by A.T Fomenko (Russia) who is part of what is known as “New Chronology” movement. Here the link to know more about it.
Certainly this is a “must know” for any BK interested in explaining the 5000 year cycle history to an intellectual who professes faith on mainstream Ph.Ds. Here is a youtube link

As I have mentioned before and many times already, current population alone and trends of it in the last 200 years (census) categorically disprove that human beings have existed for millions of years. See this:
However, by the magic of mathematics we can see that 5000 years is indeed feasible, especially if we take the work of hard core, traditional Christians Ph.Ds who are maintaining that God created the world 6000 years ago. Let them show us the “truth” about carbon dating and other scientific “proven” tests.

The mistake of Dr. Iveson is to try to fit Baba’s gyan into Western dogma called “history of the world.” (Should say European version.) If we are to prove Baba’s gyan wrong, we need to look at concepts of gyan itself to disprove that. We cannot disprove Plato by using the concepts of Rousseau.

We want evidence of 5000 year cycle? There is none. Just like scientific evidence about the age of the Earth (to err on millions of years is allowed under scientific dogma.)

Now, if we want to assume that Baba’s year is in fact equivalent to Gregorian calendar, then we can see that we are in year 2012. Note that AD is considered year “1” so we have already an error of a year.

We are really in 2011 for that reason. If in fact, 2011 years have passed since Jesus was born and before that we had 500 years (beginning of Copper age) then it follows that we are over the 2500 years allowed in Baba’s gyan. However, the mistake is to believe that Baba is counting the 2000 years when Jesus was born.

Baba is explaining that “Christ” is the founder of that religion and we also know through gyan that Christ incarnated into Jesus in his later years out of his “historical” 33 years of life. Some authors dispute that Christ lived many more years after the crucifixion and that he even died in India.

Therefore, when do we start counting those 2000 years? When Christianity was established. When was that? We do not know. If we think that this date is when Christ incarnated on Jesus and if we believe that to happen when Jesus was 30, then we still have about 20 years more to go before destruction or before the “cut off” date happens. But, this is just an speculation like anything else.

Therefore, I don’t see any issue with a 5000 year old cycle. It is quite possible and it has plenty of supporters starting with hard core Christian Ph.Ds (Especially now that more scientists are jumping on the bandwagon of a cyclical view of time and endless “big-bangs”….)