Tagged: 8-17-12

Reader comment on “churning: of “Mama’s murli 8-17-12”

Note that the experience of the “dot” is not explained there but in the Avyakt Murlis, which is Brahma Baba again in a different stage.

Reader’s note:
i remember Baba mentioning, “Remember me in Paramdham as a point of light.” And Brhma Baba’s favourite point was to be – nirakari /incorporeal, egoless and viceless.

Avyakt7 responds:
In my experience what has helped me from “imagining” things is what BapDada mentioned here:
http://bkgyan.com/2012/08/07/spiritual-efforts-eureka-the-avyakt-stage-baby-steps/
That is what I meant by the explanation of the point.

Note Mama’s explanation of God as a “living being.” It is mentioned:” Living means God also has a mind an intellect.”

Reader’s note:
May be this used to be her belief before Baba explained clearly about Him being Abhokta, Akarta, and Ashochta.

Avyakt7 reponds:
That is right. This is the proof that gyan is an on-going discovery.

Note that all religious founders took a body but stayed in the Drama by reincarnating. It seems that God has the ability to “come and go” as He wishes into the physical realm without being bound by the Drama to stay in the physical world. Gyan show us that when a soul takes a body, that soul must stay until the cycle finishes.

Reader’s note:
Brother, please leave these points about which we do not have any authority to say. God being unique, He will not take a physical birth. When a soul (not the Supreme Soul) takes up another souls’ body and functions through that, he still can not experience the ‘pain’ of the original owner of that body. That soul would have some power to use the rented body but can not experience everything. If that is the case with a soul, the capacity/ and functioning of the Supreme Soul could be much more different.
Why put thoughts in others’ minds, the thoughts which we have no proof for? It may lead some souls into doubting even other points in the murali. Some souls may lose respect for muralis too and ultimately leave gyan. This is creating a negative karma.

Avyakt7 responds:
Dear soul, when we churn knowledge, we need to be open to possibilities. To churn to support a particular belief system is not churning. “Gyan is an on-going discovery,” it is not finished yet. I am not giving “proof,” I am churning based on Murli points and someone else’s churning.
Please be aware that there are many websites already, where souls can go if they want to leave gyan and need support for that. This one is meant to churn gyan. I feel that to support “obscurity” when knowing truth, leads to negative karma rather than to inquire and discover things by churning gyan in an honest way.

In today’s Murli (8-18-12) Baba responded to your concern: “His part is unique. Completely different from anyone else’s.” (Mentioned in today’s Sakar Murli comment.) That is the magic of the Murli and the response was immediate. No further “proof” needed.

Comments on Mama’s murli 8-17-12

Many thanks to the soul who forwarded this. 🙂
The “churnings” below are open to be discussed.

Invaluable versions of Mateshwari – 1956

1. The meaning of Godly knowledge is to die alive
This imperishable knowledge is said to be Godly knowledge. The purpose of this knowledge is to die alive and this is why only a handful out of multimillions has the courage to take this knowledge. We know that this knowledge enables us to make our practical life – whatever we hear, we become that in a practical way. No sage, saint or great soul can give us his knowledge. Those people would not say: Be manmanabhav. God alone can give this direction. Mananabhav means have yoga with Me. If you have yoga with Me, I will absolve your sins and give you the sovereignity of Paradise. You will go there and rule there and this is why this knowledge is said to be the king of all kings. To receive this knowledge is an expensive deal. To receive knowledge means to die alive in one go. To take knowledge of the scriptures is a very cheap deal. There, you have to die many times because that is not God’s knowledge and this is why Baba says: Whatever you need to do, do that now. Then, this business will not remain.

Comments
Mama mentions by experience that the purpose of this knowledge is to “die alive.” Another way to say that is “self –transformation.” We can only know that through experience of gyan. Note that Mama is speaking also about her own experience: “Whatever we hear we become that in a practical way,” which is what she was known for.

Note that this knowledge is not for everyone. Only BK souls can go through this “dying alive” process. In my experience, it is not a matter of choice, but an “inner drive.” Let us remember that “pure gyan” mentions that we are imperishable souls who have not been created, but have always existed, therefore; the part of a soul is already there and so his capacity.
“Those people are happy with scriptures, just because it is in their parts.”

Let us recall yesterday’s Murli. The word “asochta” was used as the One who does not have any thoughts. This point we need to go in depth and challenge what we already know.

Yoga is an experience. That experience comes from the one who has yoga. God does not have yoga with us and He is beyond experiencing (abhogta.)

Therefore, the experience of yoga in BK life is through Brahma Baba’s experience. His experience of yoga is what we knew in the Sakar Murli. Note that the experience of the “dot” is not explained there but in the Avyakt Murlis, which is Brahma Baba again in a different stage. Thanks to the experience of Brahma Baba is how we knew about yoga.

Only a BK soul has the capacity to go to the Golden age. Others do not have that capacity but at the same time, others are not missing anything, for those souls do not have knowledge/sanskaras of the Golden age but they will experience their own “paradise” in their first birth. In this way the Drama is beneficial for all.

Therefore, “knowledge of the scriptures” is what other souls have according to their capacity to know God. It is all in the capacity of the soul.

2. God is the Truth, the Living being and the Embodiment of Bliss
The Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul is also called the Truth, the Living Being and the Embodiment of Bliss. Why is the Supreme Soul said to be the Truth? Because He is imperishable and immortal. He can never be false. He is immortal and eternal. God is also said to be the Living Being. Living means God also has a mind and intellect. He is called knowledge-full and peaceful. he is teaching us knowledge and yoga. This is why God is also called the Living Being. Although He is beyond birth and does not take a physical birth as we souls do, God too has to take the body of Brahma on loan in order to give us this knowledge and peace. It is because He is the Living Being that he is teaching us this knowledge and yoga through the mouth. God is also said to be the Embodiment of Bliss, and the Embodiment of Happiness. All these virtues are filled in God and this is why God is said to be beyond happiness and sorrow. We would not say that God is the Bestower of sorrow. No. He is constantly a treasure-store of happiness and bliss. Since His virtue is that of giving happiness and bliss, how can He give sorrow to us souls?

Comments:
Note Mama’s explanation as to why the Supreme Soul is said to be the truth: “He is imperishable and immortal.” So are we, souls.
The difference is that God is constant in his state. We souls are not.

Note Mama’s explanation of God as a “living being.” It is mentioned:” Living means God also has a mind an intellect.”
I would refer to yesterday’s Murli about abhogta, asochta, and akarta.

This point deserves to be explored deeply to understand God. If God’s residence is Parandham, Does He have a mind and intellect? If so, is He able to use that in Parandham? :- )

“Although He is beyond birth and does not take a physical birth as we souls do, God too has to take the body of Brahma on loan in order to give us this knowledge and peace.”

Note that all religious founders took a body but stayed in the Drama by reincarnating. It seems that God has the ability to “come and go” as He wishes into the physical realm without being bound by the Drama to stay in the physical world. Gyan show us that when a soul takes a body, that soul must stay until the cycle finishes.

If there is happiness, there must be sorrow. Happiness is the absence of sorrow. Therefore, we can only know about happiness when we have experienced sorrow.
God is beyond happiness and sorrow. Therefore, God cannot give sorrow…neither happiness. He cannot select “favorite ones” to give happiness and to pick them to “teach” everyone else…. Unless it is in the Drama! Therefore, is the Drama giving happiness and sorrow… 🙂

3. The Supreme Soul is Karankaravanhar.
Many people have the understanding that eternal world drama that is being enacted is all being done by God. This is why they say that nothing is in the hands of human beings. That the Lord is God. This is why they say that nothing is in the hands of human beings. That the Lord is Karankaravanhar…That God is doing everything, that both parts of happiness and sorrow have been created by God. What kind of an intellect would you call people who have such an intellect? First of all it is essential to explain to them that this is the eternal predestined world play which God creates at this time that is continuing. We refer to this as the predestined play that continues automatically. It is also said for God that God is doing everything. With which authority do we say that God is creating all of this? God is said to be Karankaravanhar, which authority has been given this name? These things have to be understood. First of all you have to understand that it is the eternal law of this world and that is predestined. Just as God is eternal, Maya is eternal and this cycle is also imperishable and eternally created from the beginning to the end. It is understood that a seed has the knowledge of the tree, and it is understood that the tree has the seed in it, both are combined and imperishable. What is the task of the seed? It has to be sown and the tree will then emerge from it. If the seed is not sown, the tree cannot grow. God is also the seed of this whole world and God’s part is to sow the seed. God Himself says: I am God when I sow the seeds, otherwise the seed and the tree are imperishable. If the seed is not sown, the tree cannot grow. God is also the seed of this whole world and God’s part is to sow the seed. God Himself says: I am God when I sow the seeds, otherwise the seed and the tree are imperishable. If the seed is not sown, how can the tree emerge? My name is God when I carry out My supreme task. My world is that which I Myself sow the seed of when I become an Actor. I bring about the beginning of the world and also its end. I become the performer (one who does by Himself) and sow the seed. I bring about the beginning of the world and also its end. I become the performer (one who does by himself) and sow the seed. I bring about the beginning at the time of sowing the seed and then there is also the seed of the end. To bring about the end of the old world and to bring about the beginning of the new world is referred to as God doing everything. Achcha.

Comments:
God does not create anything. Neither happiness nor sorrow. God is beyond the knowledge of duality, beyond experience (abhogta.)
“First of all you have to understand that it is the eternal law of this world and that is predestined. Just as God is eternal, Maya is eternal and this cycle is also imperishable and eternally created from the beginning to the end.”

Everything that exists is eternal. Maya is just the experience of duality.

“God is also the seed of this whole world and God’s part is to sow the seed. God Himself says: I am God when I sow the seeds, otherwise the seed and the tree are imperishable. If the seed is not sown, the tree cannot grow.”

If God is the only “seed” of the whole world, then God is sowing good and evil through Maya, which is not true. Therefore, God cannot be the seed of the whole world for the whole world has existed along with God and everything in it is imperishable.

“My world is that which I Myself sow the seed of when I become an Actor. I bring about the beginning of the world and also its end. I become the performer (one who does by Himself) and sow the seed. I bring about the beginning of the world and also its end. I become the performer (one who does by himself) and sow the seed. I bring about the beginning at the time of sowing the seed and then there is also the seed of the end. To bring about the end of the old world and to bring about the beginning of the new world is referred to as God doing everything. “

There is no beginning neither end. It is a repeating cycle. God is not “doing” anything as the Drama brings its own transformation (destruction.) If God would have created this world, then this world would have to have the same qualities as the creator. This world couldn’t experience “entropy” just because God does not experience entropy either. See?
“As the creator, so the creation,” it is said.

We act our roles in time. Those roles have not been created. The actor and the role are one. As the actor changes, so the role; for change is what makes the Drama,

Note:
Mama had definitely great experiences and she was an example of a virtuous life for what I understand. Note that her knowledge is still based on devotion. It is the theme of God doing everything “good” for me and that I have to fight against evil. That is the same theme in every scripture.

There is no need to know gyan in depth to become a “jewel” and to pass with honors, but I can see that there is a lot to know and understand about gyan to be able to be free from devotion. Perhaps that is not important after all….

Comments on Sakar Murli 8-17-12

Essence: Sweet children, there is very little time left. Therefore, do spiritual business. The best business is to remember
the Father and your inheritance. Everything else is false business.

Question: What concern should you children have?
Answer: How to reform souls who have been spoilt, to liberate everyone from sorrow and to show them the path to
happiness for 21 births and to give everyone the Father’s true introduction. You children should be concerned about all of this.

Song: No one is unique like the Innocent Lord.

Essence for dharna:

1. Become very, very sweet. Remove even the slightest trace of anger. Become merciful like the Father and
remain engaged in service.

2. Death is just ahead. It is now your stage of retirement. Therefore, remember the Father and the inheritance.
Use everything of yours in a worthwhile way in order to make Bharat into the kingdom of Rama.

Blessing: May you be equal to the Father who remains unshakeable in the midst of upheaval through the practice of
the subtle and the incorporeal stages.

Just as it has become natural to be in the corporeal form, in the same way, both the awareness of being a subtle
angel and an elevated incorporeal soul should be natural because Father Shiva is incorporeal and Father Brahma is
subtle. If you have love for both, then become equal to both. While being in the corporeal, practice being angelic in
one moment and incorporeal in the next. This practice will make you unshakeable in an upheaval.

Slogan: To attain divine virtues is the most elevated “Prabhu Prasad” (holy food offered to God).

COMMENTS:

The Murli today was very straightforward and to the point. Remembrance and more remembrance as well as changing our character to become very sweet by removing any trace of anger.

In my experience, this will happen as we engage in yoga and as we stay in this path while being victorious over the different obstacles arriving while ‘flying’ to our destination.

Baba also mentioned the importance of sharing knowledge with others, although in the avyakt murlis, we will hear the importance of self-transformation first as a “proof” of Godly knowledge.

The blessing was concerned with the practice of the avyakt and incorporeal stages. As we know the only “yukti” we have here is to experience and practice with the “pilgrimage of remembrance.”

The addition of Mama’s murli into the Sakar Murli, gave it a special flavor. There are some points in that Murli which I would like to explore under the premises of “pure gyan.”