Tagged: abhogta

Question: Om shanti. Dear Brother, Congratulations for completion of one year of this wonderful website. I benefited a lot from your churning as well as from the question and answer section. Today I wish to get clarification on : Does the law of entropy applicable only to the corporeal world? Is there any pre-condition for application of law of entropy? Just because of using the body made with 5 elements of nature to play the role, the souls go through the high state to low and not the supreme soul (who most of the time stay in incorporeal world)? But during the present time, the supreme soul also using a body to play its role, then the supreme soul should also experience the high state to low?

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement.

Dear soul,

Entropy works in the physical world. It is how matter changes. How everything changes to become something else. The belief of linear time has given the “fatalistic” view of entropy when applied to the Earth and the Universe. However, in a cyclical view of time, we know that the lowest point of entropy will have a “transformation” which cannot be annihilation, which will bring a state of lower entropy again.

As far as your question about God, please recall that God is “beyond experiences.”
Please read the following articles:
http://bkgyan.com/2012/08/16/point-in-depth-i-am-abhogta-asochta-and-akarta/

http://bkgyan.com/2013/02/26/comment-baba-beyond-experiences/

Now, you can draw your own conclusions.

Best wishes!

Comment: Baba beyond experiences

Reader wrote:

It is mentioned in one of the murlis that God is Abhogta, Asochta and akarta. If we literally go into the meaning of the words, it will become confusing to understand the real God. God is Abhogta means that he is beyond the effect of experience as he doesn’t have a physical body. He is asochta doesn’t mean he has no thoughts. But he has only positive (kalyankari) thoughts for all souls. He loves every soul. He doesn’t hate anyone. He is all perfect. He does not have normal mundane thoughts/ waste or negative thoughts. He is not judgemental. He doesn’t think in terms of duality- good or bad. He is akarta means he is not bounded by the law of karma while we have to bear the consequences of our actions. But it doesn’t mean he does nothing. He comes into this world to make this impure world pure by giving us knowledge.

In the foundation course of BKWSU, it elucidates that the soul has 7 original qualities or Gun. These are peace, love, happiness, purity, knowledge, power and bliss. It is who we are, our identity. Whereas, God is the ocean of all these 7 qualities. Through our physical bodies, we can experience/feel these 7 qualities of the soul. Today, we have forgotten our true identity. Therefore, when we are soul conscious, only then we experience permanent happiness. God cannot experience but in fact is knowledge-full, bliss-full and love-full. He is complete.

Avyakt7 responds:
Dear soul,
Thank you for your input.
I like your explanation of not taking things “literally,” however, your explanation may need to be reconsidered.

If God is beyond experience because “he doesn’t have a physical body,” then how God speaks: “This is hell, this is the brothel.” Isn’t that a thought based on an experience? Isn’t that a judgment based on a personal experience?

Isn’t the experience of this world being “tasteless” (as the Sakar Murli mentioned today 2/26/13) an experience which has produced a thought? Isn’t that something which “God speaks”?

To say that “God has only positive thoughts for souls” is to incur in duality. In the Golden age where there is no duality, do you believe that Laxmi will think of Narayan as a “good guy”? or that she has “pure feelings for Him”?

That is not even thought of.

When the word “akarta” comes as “doing nothing,” I believe is the right explanation of that word. When there is no ego, there is “no one doing” anything. God is egoless. There is Drama “doing” through different roles. That is how someone could be a detached observer. Also, God is not “giving us knowledge” when as you mentioned in your second paragraph that “knowledge is a quality of a soul.” We already have knowledge. God merely reminds us, thus; remembrance. We have forgotten, but it is in us already.

Therefore, to say “God has entered this one” Shall we take that literally? When we know that knowledge was in Brahma Baba’s role all the time? 🙂

Best wishes!

Question: Omshanti dear brother, thank you for your reply to my previous qn. I’ve read the article having the title ‘ God abhogta, asochta, akarta’. Now the question in my mind is then how baba gives knowledge through the ‘medium’ when he can’t create thoughts?

Thank you for your great question! 🙂
That is a mystery, isn’t it? There are many things which we do not know about how these divines experiences and visions happened to Brahma Baba. Evidently, the knowledge, Gyan is very profound and it truly answers all the questions that a “seeker” ever wanted to know, when explored, churned without an agenda other than “pure understanding.”

How does Meera have an experience with Krishna through a vision? The Murli mentions that “Baba has the key for visions.” 🙂 Is that possible? What is the meaning of having the “key” for visions? Isn’t God “akarta”? 🙂

If your question was as simply as responding logically then, the most intellectual of us will go into the process of elimination. Either God is asochta or He isn’t. Then this will create “doubts,” and the “little children” will go look for answers….just intellectual answers that will assure them that what they know is the “right thing,” the right answer… 🙂

As a mature adult, I’d say, live with the mystery.

Here is a clear example for me that we cannot get fixed into an “official” explanation of Gyan. There cannot be. There are many elements which are a mystery; therefore, I go by “pure knowledge” and churning it. The source or how it got to me is no longer important because I cannot possibly know the answers and they do not matter when it comes about my own self transformation.

Just like the visions in the subtle region, just like the history of the yagya, just like many other questions, which many want to know when many of the things that happened cannot be explained through a “logical, reasonable” explanation. That is not the aim of spirituality. This is not a history book with data. This is not the game “Jeopardy,” of empty useless memorization of data. It is spirituality, self transformation.

What is important for me is that this knowledge has improved my life. That this knowledge is true for me because it has worked for me. This knowledge has taken me to another level of my spiritual life. I don’t need to know “how it works” when it is working… I don’t need to satiate my curious mind with meaningless answers. There is “magic” now. There is “mystery” now.

I could make up a perfectly “logical answer” for you, but I will not. It is just a game of who can come up with great answers and this role is very good at it.

Dear soul, let the mystery be a mystery. Experience Gyan and see the benefits of it in your life. That is all what matters. Let your mind be at ease and your heart open to the “unknown.” Life is more than a recipe. It is poetry.

Best wishes!

Question: dear soul Omshanti. “Baba is beyond experiences” does it mean baba can’t feel anything; at the same time when we say he is ocean of love, purity, peace and happiness?

Dear soul,
Beyond experiences means that God cannot experience. 🙂 Please read this article your answer will be there.

Every soul is the embodiment of peace, love, etc, etc in a numberwise manner. If we want to call God “the ocean of those qualities” rather than a “lake,” that is fine. Words are not the experience. We are numberwise. God is not.

Best wishes!

Point in depth: “I am abhogta, asochta and akarta”

“Baba says: Here, you don’t need to bow at anyone’s feet. I am Abhogta (beyond any effect of experience), Asochta (One who is free from thoughts) and Akarta (One who doesn’t do anything). You children are even greater than the Father because children are the masters of all the property of the Father. Therefore, I, the Father, salute you masters. You don’t need to bow down at all. Yes, regard does have to be given to young and old.”

Let us go into this paragraph. Let us go into it without preconceptions, traditions or dogmas.
Baba is just saying that God does not need worshiping. Baba is giving respect back to his “children.”
The ‘children’ inherit the property of the Father.

See that this is just a wonderful figure of language but there is no “inheritance” going on and the Father, God does not have any property. Why?
Because He is “abhogta.” (beyond experience.) Is “having” different than experiencing? 🙂
We need to experience “having” even though in Gyan we realize that no one can possess anything. Using it, is a better description.

“Pure” Gyan also assures us that everything is already within the Drama and when God is revealed to us, then we could “go to the Father’s property” in a “numberwise” fashion and only if it is in our role.

Because God is beyond any “effect” of experience, God cannot experience duality. Because God is “free from thoughts,” God cannot ‘think’ that something is good or bad.
Many times I hear the sentence: “God’s thinking.” 🙂 That is devotion. There is no knowledge there.
God is also “akarta,” meaning that “He does not do anything.” That is why the term ‘karankaravanhar,’ meaning, the “one who does through others,” exist. Therefore, any devotional idea of God which portrays God as human being with thinking abilities and the ability to do things at will is not accurate.

Just picture this point of light who is there in Parandham. Ever shiny, ever centered, ever pure, ever constant.
How is it possible for that soul to think anything such as: “This is hell?” How is it possible for Him to do anything as when we say: “Baba created this world.” How can we say:” Baba is unhappy when we do not follow Shrimat.” How can we say: “Baba is working hard for us,” etc; etc.

Please see that it is just plain knowledge from the Murli.
However, BKs have experienced the “doing,” the “thinking,” the “advice based on experience” from “up above.”
How is that possible?
That is Brahma, the father of Brahmin souls. His connection to God (BapDada) has changed in time. From the “sakar days” to “now.”
Different.
Nothing in this Drama remains ever the same.
Devotion must turn into Knowledge at some time.