Tagged: avyakt BapDada
BK reader follow up question from September 15.
1.”The questions I asked were not my beliefs but words spoken by baba through murli’s. I have tried to see from a process perspective and did not quite get it- Sins getting absolved thru remembrance- through our communion with god we are sending energy to the souls of the world to reach their destination in this journey. My thinking is that we are the ones responsible for the state of the world and we are the ones who have to fix it. Why I want to absolve the sins- If I have to enjoy the present I need to be debt free- not only that need to stop taking more debts and also earn income. Its not easy to enjoy the present when you feel huge load on your shoulders. What sins I want to absolve?- There is no register where I can go and peep into each entry and then see which ones I need to fix. I am only aware that there is a negative balance that needs to be settled. Powers from Baba- We are aware of people and situations that come on a daily basis- I feel going to the study and looking for solutions is the first step- Baba gives us direction say Go NORTH. I need to figure out what is north for me- this is meditation for me- personalising gyan and seeing whether it works during the situation if it does then great if it does not then go back to the study and repeat till such time I succeed. Now these questions I put forth are seemingly basic… Dont know if my approach is correct.”
Thank you for replying back.
Baba said something in the Murli and you believe that what you heard is literally true, right??
That is your belief. It will not be a belief once you have your own experience. Then, that will become your “experience” which is not the “absolute truth” either. Until a religious follower is not willing to confront the fact of their beliefs, there cannot be an opportunity for further realizations. There will be fanaticism; but no spiritual realizations.
Avyakt7 respects every belief. It is what you believe and avyakt7 is not here to prove you right or wrong.
However, there is in your belief system a word that Baba has also mentioned: “Numberwise.” Let me ask you this. If Baba as a teacher was going to speak to a multitude of understandings and capacities. Which one he will pick to explain his teachings; the “top” understanding, the “lower” understanding, the “middle” understanding?
Evidently has to be the lowest, for otherwise, this knowledge could not be explained to the masses. In the realm of the “masses,” “black or white” teachings are necessary. “You must not do this. Never think that. etc.” This is the same for every religion, not only in your BK path.
That is why it has been said in this blog, to avoid taking things literally, which is something that every religious fanatic is good about doing. However, there is no fanatic who has ever reached a different stage of consciousness. Their own fanaticism will not allow them to see something different.
Baba has taught about “being a detached observer.” He has explained that the Drama is predestined. He has explained about karmic accounts. It is a beginner’s understanding to believe that a karmic account is a “debit or a credit in the bank of karma.” That sort of explanation, even though simple and within the reach of the masses, is not accurate at all. If we have experienced how a karmic account works, if we have observed in ourselves how actually it gets settled, then we wouldn’t take beliefs as truth. However, many are just happy when someone gives them the “answer” and you just follow it.
Those types of individuals will not be able to pass the childhood stage of spirituality. They need to be told what to do rather than experimenting for themselves so the understanding happens.
The answer cannot be written in words. Please don’t take this as another belief, but see it for yourself. Get tired of looking for written answers, for formulas in the Murlis and in other books. Nothing understood intellectually is spiritual. Those are just pointers, maps if you would; but you have to do the walk yourself, experience what works for you and to be open to life or God if you would, to show you the answer. If you are a honest searcher and spirituality is first on your list, you will get the answer only when you are ready to understand it.
Baba has also said that his teachings are according to time and circumstance in an avyakt Murli which was explained in this blog. If someone wants to pull a Murli from 1960’s and tell you that it is current, I would look at the time and circumstances. That was his teaching. Nevertheless, many seem to forget that.
Dear reader, as long as you have a belief in your mind you will only listen to those things that agree with your belief. You don’t enjoy the present by “being debt” free. You enjoy the present when you have gratitude in your heart for life itself, when you wake up and are amazed of the beauty and perfection of all, when you don’t depend on others to feel in a particular way, when you simplify your life so you have more time for your inner understanding. That is not related with having debts or credits. It is an attitude of life based on changing your vision.
The huge load over your shoulders are only in your own mind. Don’t think and just feel life, the problems are over then. It is a simple as that, but for many it will be difficult to realize. It is better to tell them to pray, to ask God for forgiveness while their minds are still in the same situation: unhappy, looking for shortcuts, looking to please others, looking for salvation, to be “better,” to get a better “status” in the future etc. With that type of mind, you will only feel a heavy weight in your shoulders.
Your belief is that you are responsible for the world. Until that heavy weight on your shoulders is completely vanished, you are not ready for the world. You can wait and settle all your karmic accounts, or you could understand your own mind by putting your own beliefs aside and by observing it.
I cannot answer your questions based on a belief with just another belief, another story to try to convince you. However, avyakt7 knows that you have understood his point.
2.“Om shanti.. The date of avyakt bapdada for meeting double foreigners in this season in october 2013??”
It may be. Please find out from a more accurate source than this one.
Let me repeat this again: This blog is about Spirituality for all. It is not interested in particular belief systems or practices. It is interested in the common good.
Question on moving away from the BK belief system
“I have noticed the change in the naming of the site and the move away from the BK. Just a few observations/comments: 1. BK teachings is for the childhood phase of spirituality- I find that the teachings are subtle and keeps changing as and when we move to the next phase- To write it off as something that is meant for the childhood phase is a little premature. 2. Belief systems: They may seem ritualistic and have issues related to what if that belief system fails- I can say from personal experience that I lacked understanding of what was being communicated. If belief systems need to be questioned then even the words spoken in the Avayakt Murli’s need to be then re-visited- who is actually coming and speaking these murli’s etc.. the list goes on. How does one then use these support systems of the BK’s if there is no belief?”
Thank you for your very good questions!
One of the things that we should notice as well, is that every single question posted by readers, have been placed here and answered here at the same time.
Hopefully it was noticed that the realizations on Brahma Kumaris knowledge posted here, have benefited many Brahma Kumaris followers as they themselves have expressed that. Obviously, there will be others who do not feel the same. That is just life.
Finally, it is important to say that this blog has changed to reflect the changes in Avyakt7. There needs to be transparency and congruence. Avyakt7 is not here to make money, sell you something or to “self promote” (for what?) or to defend a particular belief system. Avyakt7 is sharing here for the “common good,” realizations and experiences in the spiritual path. The common good, dear reader; implies that divisions are out. This is BK, this is not BK..is out. “My religion is the truth” is out. There cannot be a sense of world family while at the same time we make any sort of divisions.
On your questions:
1. BK teachings is for the childhood phase of spirituality- I find that the teachings are subtle and keeps changing as and when we move to the next phase- To write it off as something that is meant for the childhood phase is a little premature.
I’d like to apologize if what I have mentioned as “Bk teachings is for the childhood stage of Spirituality” has been taken as “lower than” by many. I have acknowledged my deep appreciation and gratefulness to the BK path as well.
Which stage of human development is “greater”? Adulthood, childhood, teen, old?
The label of “childhood” denotes, the “beginning,” the phase where support from the Father is needed.
Many do not understand the role of BapDada as a Father to provide that needed support. Dear reader, God or the Divine has many “facets,” roles…We cannot define “God” by just a particular “role” that He is playing with particular human beings.
BapDada is the first one showing changes as time goes by.
Nevertheless, dear reader let me share this with you. A spiritual walker does not depend on any group to spiritually flourish. A spiritual walker, is not dependent on anything. However, without completing that stage of “childhood” in my experience, it would be very hard to go onto the next step.
In my experience, completing the childhood stage means to conquer “sex-lust,” and to have openness to life. To move on with gratitude and thanks to life for that invaluable experience of childhood. This is the difference between an Ex- follower and someone who is still walking spirituality.
2.Belief systems: They may seem ritualistic and have issues related to what if that belief system fails- I can say from personal experience that I lacked understanding of what was being communicated. If belief systems need to be questioned then even the words spoken in the Avayakt Murli’s need to be then re-visited- who is actually coming and speaking these murli’s etc.. the list goes on. How does one then use these support systems of the BK’s if there is no belief?
Dear reader, belief systems have the tendency to be ritualistic when in a religious context. However, a ritual is not what will make someone move to another step or level. As mentioned, a spiritual walker cannot depend on anything not even on rituals. If you depend on a ritual to “be good” and elevated, your change is not “real.” Hope you could see this point.
There is nothing which needs to be “revised” in the words of Avyakt BapDada. It is just that we need to understand his role, that is all. As mentioned in a previous article, when we realize about our own immortality, there is no need for a belief. However, when we do not have that realization, a belief system is that initial protection to grow, just like a planted seed, needs to be taken care of by the gardener until it grows. That is when a belief becomes necessary.
As a spiritual walker, you need to go through the changes in life and become stronger and vital so you can be “like the Father.” This does not mean “dependent on the Father.” Obviously, all of us, spiritual walkers; are in different stages.
Every person has to look at themselves with great honesty and see the call of time and their own destiny.
I appreciate your question and hope that this time, I have clarified those items that you mentioned.
Dear reader, wish you all the best in your particular path.
With deep gratitude for your role in life.
The avyakt stage : The beginning of practical spirituality
Everyone does service through their mouth, but alokik service is taking someone beyond through your eyes. If your eyes always remain cool and spiritual, then you can take others beyond through your divine eyes in one second. It takes at least seven days to serve through the mouth. Your eyes should be a mirror through which they will see the image of BapDada, and they will become loving in one second.
The more subtle your stage becomes, the more there will be avyakt attraction. The more there are corporeal feelings, the less there will be avyakt attracion. An avyakt stage is created when there are no attractions to the corporeal. An attraction to the corporeal will distance you from the avyakt attraction. So you have to renounce the attraction to the corporeal. You have to go beyond this attraction. When you are in an avyakt stage, the corporeal cannot attract you towards itself.
February 13, 1970
Gradually all of you will develop the stage in which you will be able to know, in advance, what is inside each one. This is why you are made to practice this. The more you stabilise yourself in the avyaktstage – whether someone speaks through the mouth or not – the more you will be able to know that one’s feelings in advance. Such a time will come. This is why you are made to practice this.
If you consider yourself to be a guest, then you will be able to remain in the avyakt stage, whilst being in the corporeal form. A guest does not have any attachment to anyone. We are guests even in this body. We are also guests in this old world.
July 17, 1969
Do you experience the avyakt stage? When there is experience of the avyakt stage, the effect of that lasts a long time. The experience of the avyakt stage is a powerful one. As much as possible remove yourself from the corporeal stage, and stabilise yourself in the avyakt stage. Whilst in this stage there is less effort and greater attainment.
See the avyakt stage in front of you, and make effort to become that. “As is the Father, so are the children”. There shouldn’t be any difference. You have to remove any difference by becoming introverted. Does Baba ever become disappointed? Is he ever afraid of the situations? So why are the children afraid?
You have to become complete with love. One who has love has no consciousness of anything else. Since you have already died, why should anything be difficult? You have died haven’t you? Those who are dead are burnt. The more you die from yourself, the more you will meet the avyakt form.
June 11, 1970
If you have moved forward in your avyakt stage, your activity will be spiritual. To what extent have you become spiritual whilst living in this world? You have to check this.
January 18, 1970
Avyakt BapDada – January 18, 2013
Avyakt Murli 6-24-12 / Special versions of Mama
Versions from Mama
Today we had 2 special Murlis.
The first one was Mama’s Murli. It is a refreshing Murli where she is showing us “how to churn points of knowledge.” The other one is BapDada’s avyakt.
Notice that Mama does not repeat what Baba says in the Sakar Murlis, but she gives an extra step and goes a bit deeper in concepts such as liberation vs liberation in life, karma and bondage, creation, etc.
Notice that translation could be an issue as well to understand some of the points fully, but experience of what she is saying (having experienced the points itself) will take us in the right path of understanding.
Mama also adds her own experience on those points of gyan, in that way; those points become alive, because she is conveying her own experience. Similarly, other souls could relate with it as long as there is experience of the points in their personal lives. Otherwise it becomes a “parrot business.”
Let me add some thoughts on the points in Mama’s Murli. We should be aware that Gyan is “dynamic.” It is not something that remains the same from 1950s to now. Never. There are many points that Mama didn’t know which we know now. Therefore, those points make an additional “plus” in our churnings.
1)Liberation and Liberation in life:
Mama emphasizes the labels of “status” and “stage.” There is the stage of liberation and the status of liberation in life. Everyone experiences the stage of liberation. According to Mama’s churnings “that is our reward in the Golden age which is achieved by making effort in this birth.” Mama defines liberation in life as “being free from karmic bondage while being an actor with a body.”
Let us add some additional information to that: Is Brahma Baba an actor now? 🙂 Here is when things become complex when we use boxy, square “definitions” in our understanding of gyan.
So the answer could be “Yes.”/”No.” Is Brahma Baba free from karmic accounts now?
That knowledge of the subtle region/subtle body is not included. I will not give my answers here, but just will happily go away “planting my seed.” 😉
Now, we also know that every soul will experience a “bondage free” stage even if for a brief time. Let us go back to the Sakar Murli on April 20th of this year, when it is mentioned that “everyone experiences liberation and liberation in life.” What makes a difference on a BK soul is that a BK soul degrades slowly, thus; experiences the “status” of liberation in life longer than any other soul. This concept ties up with the concept of Numberwise. (Please see “point in depth” about this concept, numberwise = entropy.)
2) The world begins with Brahma and Saraswatti.
Interesting view point, to agree with other religions like Christianity about the first man/woman, etc. However, going deeper into this point, We live in a cycle which has existed for eternity. No one has created this Drama nor any actor in it. WHY? Because we are eternal souls just like God. We have the same qualities just like God. The difference is that we do not know, we have forgotten our qualities and God is there to remind us at this time at the end of the Drama. That is why, Baba is the” egoless benefactor:” He is not showing us who HE is. He is showing us in many ways…who we are…. See the difference? Bhakti traps us into the “how wonderful God is and look at me, I am not that.” God is wonderful. So are we.
Going back to the point of “creation.” It is just a point of reference. For BK souls, God creates Brahma and Saraswatti at the confluence age. For Christian souls, there was a “creation” out of nothing where God creates Adam. Paradoxically, we can understand the “creation” of a virtuous human being happened at the confluence age, but at the same time; it is a soul playing a different role according to time. Therefore, there was no creation…but there is .. 🙂
3) Receiving Knowledge is a matter of a second.
Here Mama demonstrates her experience in gyan. We do not truly receive knowledge until we understand it. That Aha!! moment comes in a second. To get there may many years though. (or not that many…) That is the Paradox. Our practical lives should match our understanding of knowledge. That happens when the Aha! moment arrives in our lives.
Theoretical knowledge is “parrot” gyan.
4) Godly Knowledge: Not our own dictates.
Mama stresses understanding first before yoga. Knowledge first before yoga. What we understand is what we have made practical in our lives.
This is a tricky point, for in every religion there is an amount of knowledge even though is not the whole package. What matters in imbibing that little knowledge to become virtuous.
The BK religion/clan has knowledge but also the “practical aspect” to make imbibing easier beyond intellectual understanding of “concepts.” That is through yoga. Other religions do not have this practice for their knowledge of sanskars is not the same as ours. To be able to practice this yoga with purpose; we need to have gyan, first. Yoga is meant to transform our sanskaras. That is the goal.
5) The result of knowledge is to break away and to connect.
🙂 Mama is using a Paradox! We may want to consider that things are not really that abrupt as those words “break away” and “Connect” mean. It is not about “Breaking away from everyone so we can connect with God.” We connect with God and that connection makes our connection with others at a different level (service.) This is not a matter of “choosing” but a matter of “flowing.” We can work on our connection with God first, rather than choosing to break away first. As a matter of fact, it happens at the same time… 🙂 but if we purposely choose to “break away,” ego will step in and make a “natural” process into an “ugly” battle.
I like Mama’s point:” actions should be performed in a stage where there is no bondage of karma. Otherwise human beings get caught in sorrow and happiness, because their actions pull them.”
Mama is speaking with experience here. She is talking about duality. Any type of action with a desire behind it will give us the experience of duality (happiness and sorrow.)
Mama uses the term to “have control” of our actions rather than them pulling us. We can see that our “own” fabricated desires are the masters. Those determine our experiences of sorrow and happiness.
Therefore, to have “control” means not to have desires. Here is the Paradox: “We control without having the desire to control.” That control has no desire to control. That is “real” control.
Those who perform every action while seated on their seat of self respect are great.
This is another jewel to churn. Basically, in a nutshell because we forget the “status” which Baba has given us (all the titles, such as master authority, ancestor souls, etc.) and we get trapped into temporary “status” (work titles, role titles, etc.) we repeat the same mistakes over and over because we come down from the “big title” which BapDada has given us.
If we were aware all the time of that “big title” we wouldn’t repeat mistakes (fluctuation, weaknesses.) We should replace the other temporary titles with our awaken awareness. Baba mentioned, that “awareness is everything.”