Everyone does service through their mouth, but alokik service is taking someone beyond through your eyes. If your eyes always remain cool and spiritual, then you can take others beyond through your divine eyes in one second. It takes at least seven days to serve through the mouth. Your eyes should be a mirror through which they will see the image of BapDada, and they will become loving in one second.
The more subtle your stage becomes, the more there will be avyakt attraction. The more there are corporeal feelings, the less there will be avyakt attracion. An avyakt stage is created when there are no attractions to the corporeal. An attraction to the corporeal will distance you from the avyakt attraction. So you have to renounce the attraction to the corporeal. You have to go beyond this attraction. When you are in an avyakt stage, the corporeal cannot attract you towards itself.
February 13, 1970
Gradually all of you will develop the stage in which you will be able to know, in advance, what is inside each one. This is why you are made to practice this. The more you stabilise yourself in the avyaktstage – whether someone speaks through the mouth or not – the more you will be able to know that one’s feelings in advance. Such a time will come. This is why you are made to practice this.
If you consider yourself to be a guest, then you will be able to remain in the avyakt stage, whilst being in the corporeal form. A guest does not have any attachment to anyone. We are guests even in this body. We are also guests in this old world.
July 17, 1969
Do you experience the avyakt stage? When there is experience of the avyakt stage, the effect of that lasts a long time. The experience of the avyakt stage is a powerful one. As much as possible remove yourself from the corporeal stage, and stabilise yourself in the avyakt stage. Whilst in this stage there is less effort and greater attainment.
See the avyakt stage in front of you, and make effort to become that. “As is the Father, so are the children”. There shouldn’t be any difference. You have to remove any difference by becoming introverted. Does Baba ever become disappointed? Is he ever afraid of the situations? So why are the children afraid?
You have to become complete with love. One who has love has no consciousness of anything else. Since you have already died, why should anything be difficult? You have died haven’t you? Those who are dead are burnt. The more you die from yourself, the more you will meet the avyakt form.
June 11, 1970
If you have moved forward in your avyakt stage, your activity will be spiritual. To what extent have you become spiritual whilst living in this world? You have to check this.
January 18, 1970
This Murli has theme of knowing what is “karankarvanhar,” and what is “Karanhar.”
There are many views on this. I will share two types.
First: The traditional view. That is BapDada is Karankaravanhar. He does through others, and we become the ones doing, “Karanhar” when in the awareness of that One.
From this view, the idea of BapDada or Baba “doing things,” is born as long as I “connect” with Him.
Then, BapDada mentioned about the meaning of “Karmateet,” (beyond the effects of karma.) Traditionally, if you follow the Sakar Murlis; that is something that we will experience only “At the end.” However, in avaykt Murlis, it is mentioned that we can experience the “karmateet stage,” now.
BapDada mentioned, if nothing affects us as “good or bad.” 🙂
Isn’t it that BapDada mentioned that we need to transform “everything into good”? Why is the experience of something “good” not required to be “karmateet”? Because we need to go “beyond.” That is “beyond” the knowledge of duality.
This will be as far as “traditional Gyan,” will take us when it comes about “churning.” It will be about feeling a connection with God, to remember that I don’t do things, but Baba does them and to keep a balance between service to “others” and self-service.
Second: There is another view.
BapDada is simply speaking about Ego. That is why BapDada mentioned about the existence of two “I.”
One “I” is the one thinking that is doing things, the other “I” is the one of the experience of the soul.
When we experience the “I” of the soul, which is the “being;” we are connected with “God.” In the absence of Ego, things will move smoothly according to what “needs to be.” That is “action” for the sake of action. Therefore, a soul in that state does not have any bondages of duality. That soul does not feel affected if someone “praises” him or “defames” him. It is the same monkey with a different banana. 🙂
That state of egoless-ness is to be “karmateet.” In that stage, “elevated” actions can occur, because it does not depend on the ego thinking: “ I gave gyan so good. I made so many BKs. They will be my subjects, when I get my palace in the Golden age.” 🙂
Or, there will not be the feeling of being offended such as when someone refers to us as: “ He doesn’t know the truth. All he speaks about is Manmat. I feel mercy for him. He is becoming a traitor and he will repeat that every cycle. “ The Ego of “reacting” and “proving our innocence” should see that but understand that this soul speaking such things is “pure,” but influenced by ego. Mercy is good wishes from the heart for the soul, despite the influence of his sanskaras.
In that experience of being “ego-free,” there is mercy. The experience of balance between the self and service is experienced for things will happen according to the Drama and not according to what “I” would like to do. To let things for the Drama is not to let things go carelessly as some souls interpret, but rather when “my” stage is “good” the Drama automatically “changes” to that. Before “doing” there is “BEING.”
This is a detached observer or as the blessing mentioned: Letting go. Letting go of that controlling ego.
Or as the slogan mentioned, you can think about Baba to make your thinking into powerful thoughts; but also know that feeling the self is to remember Baba… 🙂
Here Self service is truly service, for there is no “others” to serve; but there is a unity, something which ego cannot see… but to get to this point is not a matter of “talk” but a matter of experience.
Two views of the same gyan. Both valid. Both numberwise.
Thank you for your kind words!
No, I am not in Madhuban now.
As far as your question, I do not have experience with the subtle realm other than the article shared here:
Some of the writings here are being forwarded to other lists by other individuals. The remarks below are from one of such lists.
For your information.
Dear Divine Avyakt 7 –
From my side of coin whatever I am stating is true and clearly visible. That is my truth. From your side of coin whatever you say is your truth. Unless we exchange our sides we will not know the real truth, not ur truth, nor my truth. Otherwise some third person has to see both the sides of the coin without having any prejudice then only he can see the real truth.
Science laws of matter can’t be applicable to spirituality, in Toto. Yes, we can make use of them to understand spirituality to convince ourselves or others.(I use it to convince others too) But still they may or may not be truly applicable. Entropy is observed here due to gravity and air or water resistance. So we presume gravity & resistance & apply to spirituality as well. Whereas in the vacuum the entropy will perhaps not be there, unless experimented. The ball will roll on endlessly continuously eternally.
From Avyakt 7 – you presume —
There is no awareness of “time” for the soul. Because there is no experience of time for a soul, distance does not exist as well. Therefore, there is no sense of “ever going away,” in the soul realm, in soul consciousness.
Distance and thus, separation only exists while in the consciousness of the physical body. That is why, we have the separations of “you and me,” “God and me,” etc. Ego means separation at the spiritual level, just as “time-distance” is separation at the physical level.
However, because at the soul level there is no separation, being at the consciousness of the soul means, to be ONE, to be merged, to be “the same as the Father.” 🙂
At the soul level, the idea of individuality is non-existent. Only at the physical level, this separation exists.
My views –
The presumption about soul, time and space which you made, is from my side of coin ridiculous. These presumptions may lead you (in another body) to state god is omnipresent and soul merges into supreme soul during Bhakti time. You are that one who made us to wander. Baba descending down or refusing to come down for last 2 meetings is meaningless as He or every soul spread without any boundaries in space or in time! The inverted tree has no meaning. We just spread, may be overlapping or encroaching on one another. Br. Jagdish when was in Subtle region and looked down he saw the world like seeing something from balcony of a house. Dadi Kumarka coming down and expressing herself through Gulzardadi is just fake. These are few after effects of your thoughts and diverting or polluting the minds of the thinkers, which is wrong which is sin created unknowingly, because misguiding makes other’s to wander). This is caution and not a judgment.
Even Mala of 108 or 16,108 etc. is meaningless, soul can’t be compared to a bead as the idea of individuality is non-existent.
Soul may not be thumb-shaped, may not be point but still it exists in whatever subtle shape. It can’t be all occupying omnipresent. (How will you take your seat next to me in the inverted tree? Think & throw light.)
Time according to me is counted on the distance between two events. In soul world there is no physical event (no movement) no subtle movement as no thoughts (so distance between 2 thoughts will not be there) so it is timeless.
But space is there. Abundant! we occupy just a little bit.
Most of the times I feel the moderator brings your idea’s for knowing us how to think differently. But now I think the moderator should first read, check and serve us or should write’ the views expressed here may or may not be agreeable to the moderator’, like the editors do.
Br. Sorry if it pinches you; please accept my apologies in advance.
In many articles I have explained already that the “truth” according to gyan, comes from the perception of the role that we are playing, according to time. Baba’s truth, is the “truth” for a Brahmin soul at this time, but we cannot extrapolate that to say that it should be applied to everyone in the world at this time or that they should be able to “see it.” To believe that is sheer dogma; for the Drama itself is showing us that “variety” at this time is the rule. A Christian soul will have the capacity to understand only what Christianity teaches. This is a fact of pure gyan. A gyani soul will respect that rather than trying to find a third party who is unbiased to ‘decide’ what the truth is.
Sorry, but I do not play that game. There is no one without biases or prejudices, but there is understanding and that is not “equal,” but numberwise.
Even among Brahmin souls, our understanding is numberwise. Again, one more time….our understanding is not the same, but “numberwise.” Another fact of gyan.
Therefore, if you cannot see the ‘points’ that this role is making, that is expected and I respect your viewpoints as well, although not necessarily I will agree with them.
I use the laws of physics when applicable in the physical world. I have used those laws to explain the cycle of time. I am not looking to convince anyone. I am just sharing what I have found to be ‘true.’ I have shared those articles in different places. I have gotten replies back on them. The following article was “understood” by many, as you can see for yourself, when using the physical laws to explain this “role” viewpoints.
Please review the second law of thermodynamics (entropy) and the way it is applied in gyan by Bro. Jagdish. Certainly, it is not near the interpretation that you are bringing.
Bro, Jagdish and not myself is the one who introduced the concept of entropy into gyan. However, I guarantee that because it was him and not me, that even though the concept is not truly understood, it “should be the truth.” Typical human behavior. There, the perceived “truth” comes out of hierarchy rather than understanding.
Entropy is experienced by all matter. Nothing escapes that. That is why it is a “law” in physics. That ball will be degenerating in time and the “vacuum” containing that ball as well. As a matter of fact, in the reality of “pure gyan,” that ball cannot go “endlessly,” for there is a limit of 5000 years before things start all over again… see?
My views of your views.
I understand your views. I must say that searching for a “escape goat,” to assure your position as “right,” is expected. You have lots of imagination as well, for you are able to interpret things which I haven’t mentioned neither implied.
Therefore, the “sin” is over your head for implying those things which I haven’t said. However, I decided to share that “sin” with you, by publishing it here. 🙂
Dear soul, If your mind wants to wander into whatever, don’t blame it on me. You have the option not to read any of these articles. Please be careful, do not get influenced by this material! 🙂 Now, please do not play “savior” by trying to save the other “children” from reading these articles. They have the right if they wish to do so.
It seems to me that there are certain topics like “paradoxes” which you are not grasping correctly, and if you would like to have an introduction to it, I invite you to read the articles here!
In your point: “Soul may not be thumb-shaped, may not be point but still it exists in whatever subtle shape. It can’t be all occupying omnipresent. (How will you take your seat next to me in the inverted tree? Think & throw light.)”
Answer: I will bring my own chair! 🙂 Dear soul, I am not disputing that the soul does not exist. It exists! Most of the articles here and my own experiences are about the experience of the soul.
In Parandham, there is no time. No distance. No perception of space time as we know it. That is why I explained that the picture of the inverted tree basically explains that our “position,” means our capacity in a numberwise way. Already published that article last week.
On your other point: “But space is there. Abundant! we occupy just a little bit.”
Answer: If you occupy space, you are material, physical being. Does a ghost occupy space?
The best answer is “yes and no.” That answer varies according to your awareness and understanding. See?
Dear soul, I thank you for sending your views, for I have learned the reason why BapDada treats us like little children when explaining us gyan. Unfortunately for me, (maybe not) this role is meant to write in a different way. Some souls will obtain benefit, some may not. That is the game, you cannot please everyone.
Thanks to the Drama, there is greater openness to publish ideas now. New ideas, new points, which otherwise, wouldn’t be even considered.
This role is just fascinated by gyan and its depth, and this role will not settle for shallow waters when the ocean is deep. I appreciate the role of “moderators” who are willing to publish some of the churnings here, for it shows openness to learn, to investigate, to find truth rather than being stagnant with dogmatic views and understanding which do not reflect the fact that gyan is not “static,” but new points will emerge as our understanding/awareness opens up.
Just do not expect those points to come up from the “senior sister” some place. Those points can come up from anywhere and anyone…. Even from me… 🙂 BapDada has no set “ownership” on this knowledge.
As a matter of fact, if any of the things that I am sharing is bothering you, try to see the “positive,” rather than the “negative,” that is what BapDada teaches us after all.
Two short Avyakt Murlis this time.
9/10/75 A knowledge-full and powerful soul is successful
Interesting teaching in the first avyakt Murli. Baba mentions that the aim of yoga and gyan is to be successful. That success is not something in the future but something that we can attain “Now.” (Reminds me the “Power of Now” by E. Tolle.)
BapDada mentioned that in this study, those who sleep, “lose.” Meaning that those who are careless will not get their full attainment.
BapDada contrasted the “sleep of ignorance” (carelessness) with being “awake” that is to have attainments. This is the fruit of this time, so the fruit of the Golden age could be enjoyed.
For this we need to “check and change.”
It is interesting how a typical Sakar Murli concentrates on a future reward: “The Golden castle, the kingdom, the subjects, ruling that kingdom, etc, etc.” The aim seems to sacrifice “now” to get the fruit in the future, whereas in this avyakt Murli, it is clear that without attaining the fruit “NOW,” we will not receive a full attainment in the future.
This makes complete sense, for “success” is the proof that we are doing things right and by the law of karma, the future automatically will be taken care of.
BapDada’s “yukti” to avoid that carelessness is to be “tireless;” meaning, to be “awake” as to avoid being careless.
9/13/75 – World Transformation is the special task of Brahmin life.
The experience of obstacles in our efforts means lacking the power of transformation.
The power of transformation is the most important power to become closer to God.
Desires, hopes and wishes will appear constantly as storms, when the power of transformation is not there.
We need to bring transformation in a second, because the final paper is of a second.
A world transformer needs to be able to transform the self first.
The blessing mentioned about being “double light” by remaining a trustee and experience the “flying stage.”
Basically, without the consciousness of “mine” we become free from any burdens.
Thank you for your questions!! 🙂
Dear soul, without further delay, let me go into them:
1) I have written extensively (more than what i am interested in) about this topic here:
However, for the sake of practicality, I will post what I consider the main points below:
Today was a very interesting Murli (5/14/11)
Why? basically it terminates once and for all, all the BK mythology about “destruction,” I mean; the “business” of giving dates. Some thought the “100 years” of Brahma (following Indian Bhakti) came about when Dada Lekhraj was born (1876.) Many BKs left after waiting for destruction on that date (1976) and it didn’t happen… and then Baba didn’t tell the children: ” I never told you when the 100 years would have started, why do you make stuff up? stop doing that, you are making me look bad” but rather, He went along with something like ” why are you upset if destruction didn’t happen? You have another chance…”
Baba is not in the business of “I told you so” but He lets the “children” go along with their games…. “destruction consciousness” I like to call it.
In the murli today it was mentioned that “There is no time when Shiva came” so, why are BKs giving dates such as ” 1876 (Brahma’s lokik birth ) or 1936 (when Brahma still thought that he was God due to the things that were happening to him.) Why go along with such childish games?
In the first avyakt Murli (1969) Brahma Baba mentioned about the 100 years of Brahma and that “certainly he will complete those in the subtle region.” We don’t know when Dada Lekhraj became Brahma. He hasn’t disclosed that.
Today’s Murli basically mentioned that “destruction” will happen before the 5000 years of this cycle are up. Destruction and the birth of Krishna happen at the same time as “visions of the future” points out, and that goes according to “pure” gyan, for “good” and “evil” have a common vortex. (destruction of the impure world, birth of the pure world.)
Then, there is a 35 years wait to complete the 5000 years cycle. At that point Narayan marries Laxmi and 1/1/1 starts. Therefore, we do not know when the 100 years countdown starts. All we know is that once destruction happens, there will be 30 to 35 years before day 1 starts.
Dear soul, we are not “75 years into Samgamyug.” That is incorrect. We are “75 years into the “official” beginning of Brahma Kumaris.”
2) This question was answered in today’s “Comments on Sakar Murli 9-15-12.” Basically, it is another “translation issue.” The word Dharma was translated as “religion” when it means more than that, a life style, traditions, a culture, etc. As we know, all of that will disappear and then the “Deity life style” will take over. It is not even a “Deity religion” as translated, for there is no need there of “spirituality” nor God. That is the Drama!
As we know, every culture changes with time. In this case, everything will change at a faster speed after “transformation” also known as destruction. Here is where the “Advance Party” takes over as “survivors.”
3) As far as “spiritual efforts” using the “subtle region,” I do not know of any.
I have not experienced the subtle region (yet.) So I do not know.
I have experienced the avyakt stage as I shared in an article and I have experienced BapDada’s help (magic) through “others”.. 🙂 to help me in my spiritual “efforts.”