Tagged: mama

Question: Hi brother, thanks a lot for your reply,I have developed a better understanding after that,but them again some questions came into my mind that what is the difference between soul and its subtle body?And can you please tell me after reaching karmateet stage,is mama still in her birth playing her part?And which dadi ji are you talking about in your post who used to come in dadi gulzar’s body?And is it not so,that those who reach there karmateet stage stay in subtle world only.

Thank you for your questions!
Difference between soul and subtle body? In a nutshell they represent our “being” in every region of the “3 worlds.” That is why we are a “multi-dimensional” beings. From the perspective of a soul, there is no time neither movement. From the perspective of the subtle body; there is no time, nor sound but there is movement and from the perspective of the physical body; there is time, there is sound and there is movement. Our consciousness dictates what we perceive.
As you can see, the subtle body and the physical body are “dresses” of the “unmovable,” timeless soul. Every “dress” have their own manifestation and connection with the soul.

“Mama” is playing a part in the “advanced party.” This is something “new” which Sakar Murlis do not mention. The “advanced party” are the ones making preparations for what will be the Golden age in the future. Their roles are incognito and BapDada hasn’t revealed too much about them. The need to explain further about them arose when Mama “left the body.”

Something similar happened with Dadi Ji (Dadi Prakashmani.) She became “karmateet,” but she is playing a “special part” now. On the other hand, Brahma Baba, became “karmateet” and went to the subtle region to “sustain” the Brahmin clan.(Without that “sustenance” there was no way in the whole world, that I would have become a Brahmin soul.)

As you can see. there are different parts that a soul could play even after becoming karmateet, for the cycle of time hasn’t finalized yet. Also, you have the “Second timer Brahmins,” like myself and I bet… you; for the questions that you are asking are not “normal,” for most BKs to ask.

That is as much information as I can share about these topics. Perhaps other Brahmin souls may comment and add more, but be aware that these topics do not fall into “churning gyan,” but into “speculation.” Anything further; we will find out as time moves on and BapDada reveals…and as our understanding and EXPERIENCE increases.

Best wishes!

Avyakt Murli 6-24-12 / Special versions of Mama


Versions from Mama

(original 2-19-57.)
Today we had 2 special Murlis.
The first one was Mama’s Murli. It is a refreshing Murli where she is showing us “how to churn points of knowledge.” The other one is BapDada’s avyakt.
Notice that Mama does not repeat what Baba says in the Sakar Murlis, but she gives an extra step and goes a bit deeper in concepts such as liberation vs liberation in life, karma and bondage, creation, etc.
Notice that translation could be an issue as well to understand some of the points fully, but experience of what she is saying (having experienced the points itself) will take us in the right path of understanding.
Mama also adds her own experience on those points of gyan, in that way; those points become alive, because she is conveying her own experience. Similarly, other souls could relate with it as long as there is experience of the points in their personal lives. Otherwise it becomes a “parrot business.”
Let me add some thoughts on the points in Mama’s Murli. We should be aware that Gyan is “dynamic.” It is not something that remains the same from 1950s to now. Never. There are many points that Mama didn’t know which we know now. Therefore, those points make an additional “plus” in our churnings.

1)Liberation and Liberation in life:
Mama emphasizes the labels of “status” and “stage.” There is the stage of liberation and the status of liberation in life. Everyone experiences the stage of liberation. According to Mama’s churnings “that is our reward in the Golden age which is achieved by making effort in this birth.” Mama defines liberation in life as “being free from karmic bondage while being an actor with a body.”
Let us add some additional information to that: Is Brahma Baba an actor now? 🙂 Here is when things become complex when we use boxy, square “definitions” in our understanding of gyan.
So the answer could be “Yes.”/”No.” Is Brahma Baba free from karmic accounts now?
That knowledge of the subtle region/subtle body is not included. I will not give my answers here, but just will happily go away “planting my seed.” 😉
Now, we also know that every soul will experience a “bondage free” stage even if for a brief time. Let us go back to the Sakar Murli on April 20th of this year, when it is mentioned that “everyone experiences liberation and liberation in life.” What makes a difference on a BK soul is that a BK soul degrades slowly, thus; experiences the “status” of liberation in life longer than any other soul. This concept ties up with the concept of Numberwise. (Please see “point in depth” about this concept, numberwise = entropy.)

2) The world begins with Brahma and Saraswatti.
Interesting view point, to agree with other religions like Christianity about the first man/woman, etc. However, going deeper into this point, We live in a cycle which has existed for eternity. No one has created this Drama nor any actor in it. WHY? Because we are eternal souls just like God. We have the same qualities just like God. The difference is that we do not know, we have forgotten our qualities and God is there to remind us at this time at the end of the Drama. That is why, Baba is the” egoless benefactor:” He is not showing us who HE is. He is showing us in many ways…who we are…. See the difference? Bhakti traps us into the “how wonderful God is and look at me, I am not that.” God is wonderful. So are we.
Going back to the point of “creation.” It is just a point of reference. For BK souls, God creates Brahma and Saraswatti at the confluence age. For Christian souls, there was a “creation” out of nothing where God creates Adam. Paradoxically, we can understand the “creation” of a virtuous human being happened at the confluence age, but at the same time; it is a soul playing a different role according to time. Therefore, there was no creation…but there is .. 🙂

3) Receiving Knowledge is a matter of a second.
Here Mama demonstrates her experience in gyan. We do not truly receive knowledge until we understand it. That Aha!! moment comes in a second. To get there may many years though. (or not that many…) That is the Paradox. Our practical lives should match our understanding of knowledge. That happens when the Aha! moment arrives in our lives.
Theoretical knowledge is “parrot” gyan.

4) Godly Knowledge: Not our own dictates.
Mama stresses understanding first before yoga. Knowledge first before yoga. What we understand is what we have made practical in our lives.
This is a tricky point, for in every religion there is an amount of knowledge even though is not the whole package. What matters in imbibing that little knowledge to become virtuous.
The BK religion/clan has knowledge but also the “practical aspect” to make imbibing easier beyond intellectual understanding of “concepts.” That is through yoga. Other religions do not have this practice for their knowledge of sanskars is not the same as ours. To be able to practice this yoga with purpose; we need to have gyan, first. Yoga is meant to transform our sanskaras. That is the goal.

5) The result of knowledge is to break away and to connect.
🙂 Mama is using a Paradox! We may want to consider that things are not really that abrupt as those words “break away” and “Connect” mean. It is not about “Breaking away from everyone so we can connect with God.” We connect with God and that connection makes our connection with others at a different level (service.) This is not a matter of “choosing” but a matter of “flowing.” We can work on our connection with God first, rather than choosing to break away first. As a matter of fact, it happens at the same time… 🙂 but if we purposely choose to “break away,” ego will step in and make a “natural” process into an “ugly” battle.
I like Mama’s point:” actions should be performed in a stage where there is no bondage of karma. Otherwise human beings get caught in sorrow and happiness, because their actions pull them.”
Mama is speaking with experience here. She is talking about duality. Any type of action with a desire behind it will give us the experience of duality (happiness and sorrow.)
Mama uses the term to “have control” of our actions rather than them pulling us. We can see that our “own” fabricated desires are the masters. Those determine our experiences of sorrow and happiness.
Therefore, to have “control” means not to have desires. Here is the Paradox: “We control without having the desire to control.” That control has no desire to control. That is “real” control.

Avaykt Murli
Original (1-23-75)
Those who perform every action while seated on their seat of self respect are great.

This is another jewel to churn. Basically, in a nutshell because we forget the “status” which Baba has given us (all the titles, such as master authority, ancestor souls, etc.) and we get trapped into temporary “status” (work titles, role titles, etc.) we repeat the same mistakes over and over because we come down from the “big title” which BapDada has given us.
If we were aware all the time of that “big title” we wouldn’t repeat mistakes (fluctuation, weaknesses.) We should replace the other temporary titles with our awaken awareness. Baba mentioned, that “awareness is everything.”