Tagged: narayan

Many questions…in one question

The following questions were formulated by a BK soul. I would like to remind all of you that I am not a fortune teller. My answers are based on churning gyan. Many of the questions are repeated questions. From now on I will just say “that question was asked before,” and as I showed many times how to search terms in this blog, I trust that the articles will be found.
I will answer the soul’s questions in between his questions:

Om Shanti
Nummers of the FAMILY members in the FIRST LINE;

Pick a number.

The Divine Intellect Whom are the 8 First BK Family members?
Or what is meant by the First 8 members?

It was responded before. See “rosary.”

Then you have the Rosary of 108 Also Baba mentions 16,108 what is meant by that?

That question was asked before and responded as well.

Is it correct that GOLDEN AGE has ONLY a maximum of 900,000 souls to enter over the entire era of 1250 years EACH having 8 births? Or is that the number of souls whom are directly to be transferred into the next Kalpa (all be it numberwise) are these INCLUDING the subjects?

900,000 souls at the beginning of the Golden age. They will reproduce in the duration of that age. If you read the “Mystery of 21 births” you will see that it is difficult to know who has 7 births or 8 births in the GA. Your last question needs to be clarified.

What is the number of souls at the end of Golden Age? What is number of souls at the end of Silver Age?

The Murli mentions 330 million souls at the end of Silver age. That is it as far as I know.

Now my question to you:
How is that information helpful to you in any way? If it is just out of curiosity, please don’t do that to me.

If you plan to figure out the different numbers by extrapolating them and figuring out that out of 900,000 to start if they have each 2 children knowing that their life expectancy was 150 years, and if you put them together in the 1250 years duration of the Golden age then you could figure it out the end population of the Golden age and to double check if the 330 million at the end of the Silver age is the correct number; let me use this opportunity to briefly say that to be a waste of time. Why? Because estimates are based on “fixed realities.” Rate of growth is not constant because not everyone lives 150 years on “the dot.” Those differences make a difference overtime in larger population; AND you don’t know that those 900,000 in day “1” where “really” in their first birth of the 8 permitted in the Golden age, or in their second… (???) 🙂 That was answered before as well.(see mystery of 21 births) Krishna was in his “second” birth on day “1” when he became Narayan.

Divine Intellect: The Divine Intellect is like the Heart of the soul, however it can ALSO BE DESCRIBED as a Hand (Catching Power) I remember a Class given by Sister Meera Bhen Ji in BapDada’s Season 2009/2010 about the Divine Intellect and Catching Power. I would like to go deeper into Baba’s spiritual knowledge regarding how the Divine Intellect works and where does the Divine Intellect consists of in spiritual terms? Does the Divine Intellect consists of 5 ‘fingers’ or ‘members’ of the ‘GOVERNMENT’ ? Whom is at the Top of the Government? It is DESCRIBED that soul consists of 3 faculties ( Divine Intellect, Mind & Sanskars) though there must be much more to learn about the Divine Intellect.

Divine intellect: Absence of waste. That is as deep as it gets.

Best wishes!

Best wishes!

“Those who become the most elevated beings then become the lowest too. “

“Those who first of all become the most elevated beings then become the middle and then the lowest. Therefore, Lakshmi and Narayan are the most elevated. They are the most elevated of all human beings. Then, when they come down, they change from deities into warriors, from warriors into merchants, then into shudras and the lowest ones.” SM 1-28-13

It is interesting how our minds are set up to perceive the souls playing the role of Lakshmi and Narayan as the “most elevated.”
However, when “pure gyan” mentions that those souls will become the “lowest ones, ” the most “degraded ones,” the most “impure ones.”
🙂 Then, I can see how some will be frowning for their “devotion” to those beings have been touched by words which are perceived as “derogatory.”

We are dealing with words. What is the meaning of the “lowest one”? Isn’t that the most impure ones? What is the meaning of the most impure ones, the most degraded ones? (Now I am pushing some one’s buttons) In the unlimited, that only means those who have the greatest amounts of karmic accounts to be settled. That is it. Those who have the largest amounts of karmic accounts to be settled are the ones who settle the greatest amount of those accounts. In the unlimited, activities that we consider “degraded” are just activities which will have a return. No moral standards.

Brahma and Mama are souls who have accumulated the greatest number of karmic accounts, but at the same time, the ones who have settled those accounts the most, to become karmateet. A “newer” soul does not have a great deal of karmic bondages to settle, likewise when it is time to go “back home,” that soul will not need BK knowledge to settle his accounts. Those few accounts will be settled through suffering (which as we know is one of the 2 “trusted” ways to settle karmic accounts.) 🙂

Similarly, when the Sakar Murli talks about “pure” and “impure;” it basically means “celibate” and “non-celibate.” The connotation that being “impure” has, could be taken in a derogatory way by those who are not interested in pursuing celibacy. In fact, their roles are like that. 🙂 This is something that we need to keep in mind.

There is power in words. But as we advance spiritually, we will know how to use one word so, we do not cause “unnecessary” upheavals in other souls.
“Pure Gyan” is not “black or white.” It requires an openness beyond the world of conformist repetition and dogmatic views, to see something different, good for all.

Question: Om Shanti The comments and the Answer you give to many question are very beneficial to us all. I refer to Murli of 2nd Nov, I always have these question in my mind. first Baba always says that you receive the inheritance for 21 births in golden and silver age but when you give the course you say 8 births of GA and 12 births of SA. Also the average age of 150 years in GA do not add to 1250 years (1200) similarly average age of 120 or 125 for 12 births do not add to 1250. Also please let me know your churning if the Maharathhi who left their bodies (Dadiji Jagdishbhai etc) if their next birth is the 1st birth or 84th birth? The Advance party will be responsible to give births to Krishna and Radha so would golden age and confluence age will run Parerral for some time? Also so many times you answer that Brahma Vishnu and Shanker,apart from Brahma Shanker and Vishnu do not exist. Behind the throne of Laxmi and Narayan, there is the picture of Vishnu. How come that picture appears there, some kind of memory of Bhakti?

Thank you for your thought out question and kind words!

As far as your first question, the “churned” answer was given here:

As far as your computation on “averages,” it does not mean that 8 x 150 = 1200 so 50 years are missing. The Sakar Murli just relates Brahma Baba’s soul going through the cycle of time as the “model” for explanations. Only Brahma Baba’s life through time has been disclosed with referential points. Brahma Baba takes the full 84 births and when he left his body (1969,) that was his last birth in this “cycle.” Brahma Baba takes 8 births in the Golden age. BUT his second “birth” (name change) is when the Golden age “starts officially.” (When his name changes from Krishna into Narayan 1st -see articles above.) In those 8 births, Brahma Baba could have been 200 years old in one of his births, 145 in another, etc. The word “average” means that we take all values for every birth and add them up and then divide them by 8. That is all. It doesn’t mean that every birth has to be 150 years and also, it does not mean that everyone has to take 8 births of 150 years. Consider Dadi Janki’s age for an “Iron age” average of life expectancy.

Also bear in mind that the “cycle of time” is not a “static line” dividing a circle in 4 equal parts. That is just an easy explanation. The cycle moves continuously without a break and just like you cannot tell when the day starts at dawn, similarly with the ages in the cycle of time. That is the way of Nature, not the way of how an artist would like to paint a picture. 🙂

Consequently, we do not know which “birth number,” Dadi Ji is in or Jagdish bhai. We will start counting again when they experience their first birth after “destruction,” and that could be just like Brahma Baba, before the “official Golden age” or after. That hasn’t been disclosed.

As far as you question of the “advanced party;” the advanced party will allow the “Golden age” to exist. The “Confluence age” is only for Brahmin souls, not for Advance party souls. The confluence age finishes when Brahma Baba takes birth as Krishna. A “new” point to churn is to note that “advanced party” souls are neither in the “confluence age,” nor in the “Iron age.” 🙂

In your last question: Laxmi and Narayan signify Vishu. Also the Sakar Murli, mentions that “Brahma becomes Vishnu,” meaning that Brahma will be a resident of the Golden age.
“Brahma Baba” is the name of a role of a soul. Vishnu is just a mythical name which represents something (sustenance, golden age, the perfect couple, the in-laws, etc) Same with Shankar (destruction, bodiless stage, etc.)

Best wishes!

Starting point of the Golden age and the mystery of the 21 births: resolved

In today’s Murli (8-18-12) Baba mentioned:

Although Radhe and Krishna will have taken birth, it won’t be called the golden age at that time. It is when they sit on the throne of the kingdom in the form of Lakshmi and Narayan that that era will begin. Until then, souls will continue to come and go. All of these things have to be churned.

Therefore Krishna and Radhe are born in the “impure world.” Thus, Krishna will have his “second” birth once the Golden age starts, that is when he becomes Narayan.
That is the mystery of the 21 births.
Articles which deal with this topic could be read here:




21 births in the “in-laws” – Mystery or …?

16. The 21 births mystery
“You take 21 births in the in-laws.”

On June 12th Baba mentioned that: “You take 21 births in the in-laws.”

Therefore, the usual answer of “you take 8 births in the GA, 12 in the SA and 1…right now, in the confluence age” does not match the math. The “in-laws” is not the confluence age.
So, we need to look for another answer.

Baba has mentioned that in the Golden age the “normal” life span is 125 to 150 years.
He hasn’t mentioned how long the life span is in the Silver age as far as I remember.

So, we can do our math and see that it does not match 1250 years which is the “duration” of the Golden age.
So, what happen?

We cannot go by the number of births in the Golden age because only 900,000 souls will be there on “day 1.” Therefore, were they born before the Golden age?
Yes. That is you missing birth. Is that part of the “in-laws”? Yes, because they are living in the Golden age. BUT, no…. because they were not born in the Golden age. 🙂 I love paradoxes…

Let us remember that “84 births” is the number of Births that Brahma/Krishna has taken. In Gyan, BRAHMA BABA IS THE MEASURING STICK.

Was Mama’s birth her last one when she was a BK? NO. Therefore the words in the Murli : “This is your last birth” is half true… 😉 For some it may be but not for others. For BRAHMA BABA, it was.
In the Golden and Silver ages, Baba is referring to “dynasties.” That is why in some Murlis, Baba mentions about “Narayan 1,2,3, etc.” There are 8 Narayans and 12 Ramas.
Our number of births is not constant. Again Brahma Baba will probably take his life as the measuring stick for all BKs. He took 8 births in the GA, 12 Births in the SA, etc. His missing (1) birth will be when he is born as Krishna. He will be born outside the confluence age (he is born when destruction takes place.)
BUT when the Golden age starts, he is BORN AGAIN BY CHANGING HIS NAME TO NARAYAN.
Therefore… 21 births for HIM.
To recap:
Let us remember then that Brahma Baba generalizes gyan based on his own life experience in the cycle. Brahma Baba takes 84 births. 8 in the GA, 12 in the SA, etc.
Brahma Baba’s last birth ended in 1969 in this kalpa (84.) Brahma Baba’s 1st birth will be when he is born as Krishna until he changes his name to Narayan. That is his First birth in the GA, but his second birth in the new kalpa.

How about that? 😉