Tagged: vishnu

Question: Does vishnu and shankar knew that there is a paramatma called shiv above their world, when he took many avatars in dwarapayuga and tretayuga.??

Thank you for your question.
Dear soul,

Vishnu and Shankar are just labels to signify something such as “The perfect couple,” Laxmi/Narayan, The Golden age, Sustenance, etc. On the other hand, Shankar is the equivalent of destruction, seed stage, nakedness of the soul, transformation, etc.

In Hindu bhakti, the meaning of those words are taken as “persons,” beings in the subtle region. This obviously is something that Sakar Baba didn’t put his valuable time in “correcting” in the children. I think he had enough when making them understand the real name of God, “Shiva,” (point of light rather than a person) and that Krishna wasn’t God.

If you search those words in the blog, you will find more articles about it.

Best wishes!

Question: Dear Brother, In today’s murli baba has said that Shivbaba is the supreme soul, then comes Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar in the subtle world and then Laxmi-Narayan, Ram-Sita all are numberwise… Whenever I listen this point, I get confused because Brahma baba is the deity in subtle world which is existing at sangamyuga… but I am not clear about Vishnu and Shankar… Vishnu is the representation of laxmi and narayan together right? Could you please elaborate on this and please explain the part of shankar… Thank you..


Thank you for your question!
Dear soul, I understand your confusion.

Here is a little background information. This Gyan is explained under the influence of devotional Hinduism. That is why, you have 3 names of “beings” who have a repercussion in Hinduism. You have Brahma known as the “creator,” you have Vishnu known as another incarnation of God and then you have Shiva (in the Hindu trimurti) which Brahma Baba changed to “Shankar” (even though both names refer to the same “deity”) so the difference between God Shiva of being above anyone else could be made.

You know what is the easiest solution?
Forget about all of that. It is not necessary.

Here is the simple explanation without any religious background.
God is the Supreme soul.
The forces of the Drama, which is perceived as “creation,” sustenance” and “destruction,” has been assigned in devotion as the “3 acts of God.” Those 3 acts, have been given names such as “Brahma,” “Vishnu,” and “Shankar.”

Because Brahma Baba is the “father of the Brahmin clan,” and known as “Prajapita Brahma;” Brahma Baba has taken the “spot” of “Brahma” in the trimurti of Hinduism.
That “creation” grows. That is known as “sustenance” and it is represented as “Vishnu” in devotion. That sustenance decreases in “celestial degrees” through time and disappears for “1 second.” That is “Shankar.” Then, Brahma emerges again to continue on in this everlasting cycle.

In a more scientific way we can describe the same thing as; “matter cannot be created neither destroyed. It only transforms.” (First law of conservation of matter and energy.)
What exists (creation) gets transformed gradually (sustenance) until what it was there before, is no longer visible (destruction) for it has converted itself into “something else” (creation.) This cycle lasts 5000 years before the “original” point of reference repeats again.

Or we can say the same thing as when we say that “Brahma emerged from the navel of Vishnu.” Destruction (Shankar) being the “1 second” of separation between the form of Brahma and the form of Vishnu.

As you mentioned, “Vishnu” is a representation of the “perfect couple,” or Laxmi and Narayan or the Golden age or Brahma is his highest stage, etc. Shankar is just the “1 second” destruction that occurs for “one form to change into another.”

In the Sakar Murli Baba uses “Vishnu” and “Shankar” as if they were living beings in the subtle region. That is not so. That is just devotional understanding which needed to be added so the important concept of “trimurti” and “karankaravanhar” (God acting through others) could be digested with the “new knowledge.”

This is why, many times I have mentioned that “pure” gyan does not require Hinduism to be properly understood. As you can see, to fit gyan into a “Hindu” background, brings its challenges and may add confusion in some aspects of gyan.

Hope this clarifies your question. 🙂

Best wishes!

Question: Om Shanti The comments and the Answer you give to many question are very beneficial to us all. I refer to Murli of 2nd Nov, I always have these question in my mind. first Baba always says that you receive the inheritance for 21 births in golden and silver age but when you give the course you say 8 births of GA and 12 births of SA. Also the average age of 150 years in GA do not add to 1250 years (1200) similarly average age of 120 or 125 for 12 births do not add to 1250. Also please let me know your churning if the Maharathhi who left their bodies (Dadiji Jagdishbhai etc) if their next birth is the 1st birth or 84th birth? The Advance party will be responsible to give births to Krishna and Radha so would golden age and confluence age will run Parerral for some time? Also so many times you answer that Brahma Vishnu and Shanker,apart from Brahma Shanker and Vishnu do not exist. Behind the throne of Laxmi and Narayan, there is the picture of Vishnu. How come that picture appears there, some kind of memory of Bhakti?

Thank you for your thought out question and kind words!

As far as your first question, the “churned” answer was given here:

As far as your computation on “averages,” it does not mean that 8 x 150 = 1200 so 50 years are missing. The Sakar Murli just relates Brahma Baba’s soul going through the cycle of time as the “model” for explanations. Only Brahma Baba’s life through time has been disclosed with referential points. Brahma Baba takes the full 84 births and when he left his body (1969,) that was his last birth in this “cycle.” Brahma Baba takes 8 births in the Golden age. BUT his second “birth” (name change) is when the Golden age “starts officially.” (When his name changes from Krishna into Narayan 1st -see articles above.) In those 8 births, Brahma Baba could have been 200 years old in one of his births, 145 in another, etc. The word “average” means that we take all values for every birth and add them up and then divide them by 8. That is all. It doesn’t mean that every birth has to be 150 years and also, it does not mean that everyone has to take 8 births of 150 years. Consider Dadi Janki’s age for an “Iron age” average of life expectancy.

Also bear in mind that the “cycle of time” is not a “static line” dividing a circle in 4 equal parts. That is just an easy explanation. The cycle moves continuously without a break and just like you cannot tell when the day starts at dawn, similarly with the ages in the cycle of time. That is the way of Nature, not the way of how an artist would like to paint a picture. 🙂

Consequently, we do not know which “birth number,” Dadi Ji is in or Jagdish bhai. We will start counting again when they experience their first birth after “destruction,” and that could be just like Brahma Baba, before the “official Golden age” or after. That hasn’t been disclosed.

As far as you question of the “advanced party;” the advanced party will allow the “Golden age” to exist. The “Confluence age” is only for Brahmin souls, not for Advance party souls. The confluence age finishes when Brahma Baba takes birth as Krishna. A “new” point to churn is to note that “advanced party” souls are neither in the “confluence age,” nor in the “Iron age.” 🙂

In your last question: Laxmi and Narayan signify Vishu. Also the Sakar Murli, mentions that “Brahma becomes Vishnu,” meaning that Brahma will be a resident of the Golden age.
“Brahma Baba” is the name of a role of a soul. Vishnu is just a mythical name which represents something (sustenance, golden age, the perfect couple, the in-laws, etc) Same with Shankar (destruction, bodiless stage, etc.)

Best wishes!

Question: Even though Baba repeatedly tells us that there is only Brahma Baba in the Subtle World, what is the significance and relevance of telling new comers that Shankara and Vishnu are also residents of that region? Baba also indicates that Shankara and Vishnu are also a part of HIS creation. Why?

Great question! Thanks.
Short answer: There is no significance unless those newcomers have deep devotional sanskars of Hinduism. That is why, those stories do not have any meaning for a Westerner BK, in general.

As mentioned before, we cannot take the lines of a Sakar Murli at “face value,” meaning literal interpretation of what Baba said at one particular point in time. Even, the Avyakt Murlis, should be looked at in the same way. Why? Because in both Murlis, Baba treat us like “little children.” 🙂 Thereby, His way of talking is geared towards little children… 🙂 and we need to see beyond that type of language, that is to have a “broad intellect.”

I can understand that, because only little children are still confronting illusions (maya,) just like we are, even though we have this powerful gyan. We are little children with grown up “intellectual” minds which get us in trouble many times…

Therefore, as mentioned before; for all practical purposes those 3 deities are part of the Hindu background and they have a particular meaning which is not needed in “pure” Gyan. Those “subtle deities” are just the explanation of the 3 “acts of God” in devotion, (creation, sustenance, destruction) therefore, that is the reason why Baba says that “Shankar and Vishnu are part of HIS creation,” even though we know that God does not create anything, nothing at all at anytime.

However, those lines had a meaning for those souls in the 1950’s who had a devotional heart for all deities, gods and goddesses that we could imagine. By acknowledging their deities rather than telling them: “look they do not exist, get over it.” we allow them to listen to us so they can experience something rather than provoke them.

In my experience, knowledge is not interpreted. It is to be experienced. When we lack the experience, especially when listening an avyakt murli, it will sound nice; but we will not understand anything, for the meaning can only be grasped once we have experienced what Baba is explaining. That is why gyan without experience is just “beautiful talk which touches the ears but never the heart.”

Best wishes,

Question: Please could you explain the significance of the four ornaments Vishnu is holding i.e. mace, chakra, lotus flower & conch shell. Baba has mentioned it in the Murlis but I appreciate your comments. Thank you.

Thank you for your question!
The significance of the 4 armed Vishnu differs depending on who you ask. In Brahma Kumaris has its own significance for only Brahmin souls know what they have to go through to conquer our own weaknesses.
In Baba’s gyan, the 4 arms of Vishnu means the balance of the energy of the perfect male and female (Laxmi-Narayan.) The ornaments according to Baba’s gyan, are meant for Brahmins now.
Those ornaments are weapons in knowledge. In other words, by using those 4 ornaments, we will obtain that “perfection” represented by Vishnu. (aim and objective.)

The Conch has the meaning of “blowing” knowledge. It is the weapon used before a war. That war as we know is with our own vices (Maya.)
The Discuss, is another weapon to “cut the heads of the demons.” This is practically understood when our mind plays games on us and by spinning that discuss ( moving/changing thoughts in the unlimited,) we can get out of the limited situation. That is how we “cut heads” of our own demons.
The Mace means conquering ego. That is the significance of the mace pointing towards the feet.
The Lotus is purity. That is the last weapon to become Vishnu.

Best wishes.

Question: Dear Brother, in todays murli 6sep we read “Prajapita to Ek hi Hai” meaning there is only one Prajapita , in the previous (older ) murlis also read as “Brahma to ek nahi bante ” “Sirf Ek Krishna to to nahi ” Who is Brahma , what is role of Brahma . in the course book it mentions Shivababa (Trimurti ) first creates the 3subtle dieties ,Brahma Vishnu Shankar . Then is it Dada Lekhraj journey to Prajapita to Brahma to Krishna . Please share your insight for proper understanding of the Alokik father.

Thank you for your deep question. It is a “big question” to answer… 🙂

I am not an ‘authority’ in Hinduism nor Indian by birth in this life, therefore; those labels do not have the same “impact” or “importance” to me. Gyan for me is all about self-transformation.
However, based on the points of Sakar Murlis, here is the understanding that I have:

ShivBaba (God) does not create anything. We know in gyan that everything is eternal. Our subtle bodies are eternal as well. No need for “creators.” I am categorically sure about this point. I do not know why there is this mind set of having God as a “creator,” which confuses things when He cannot create anything at all. That is creating from nothingness.
In devotion, the term creation is used to convey that something has “changed or transformed.” However, change is all there is in this Drama.
Why add another layer of bhakti in our knowledge of God?

Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are merely representations of the 3 “acts of God’ (here goes more devotion) which in reality are simply the 3 states of matter (physical world) in observation. That is something “new” appears from something “old.” That is “creation.”- Brahma. That “creation” will evolve into something “old” gradually. That journey from “new” to “old” is called “sustenance” or Vishnu. Finally, when that “old” thing disappears to become something “new” again, that is called “destruction” or Shankar.

As you can see there is a cycle which repeats. That cycle we can see it in us. We go from babies to elders and then we “die,” just to become babies again. Without “bhakti,” devotion; this is the meaning that I am able to find and share.

There is “Subtle Brahma” also known as “angelical” or just Brahma in the subtle region. There was the “corporeal” Brahma, also known as “Prajapita Brahma” or “Adam,” because of the belief that God “creates” Brahma as His first “creation” and everyone else comes after him (Brahma in Hinduism, Adam in Christianity.) There is a Murli point where is mentioned: ”Prajapita Brahma is here rather than in the subtle region.” Therefore, we can assume that Prajapita Brahma was “sakar” Brahma who became “Subtle Brahma.” Basically we are talking about the same soul in different stages.
Please let us not get caught up in the “titles” and devotional “hierarchies.”

Dear soul, please see that there is an eternal recurrent “circle” (Drama) where there is no possibility for “creation.” There is no “creation” at all. Everything that exists is what has always existed but changes in time (physical form) to become the same form after a cycle.
The soul in Dada Lekhraj awakens through knowledge and his name is changed to Brahma. (Changing names to ‘spiritual names’ was usual back in those days) That same soul meets his angelic form after becoming karmateet and now is playing a role as “subtle Brahma.”

That same soul will take birth as Krishna who will be known as Narayan when he gets married to Lakshmi.
Same soul with different names given to him according to religious traditions and understanding.

Back in the “Sakar” days the idea of “relating” the true bhakti stories was important. To put Shankar instead of Shiva or to make sure that people knew that Jagadamba was the same soul as Lakshmi was of paramount importance. To explain that there are “3 subtle deities up in the subtle region” was part of that as well.

Gyan, can be explained very well without all of those devotional stories. As a matter of fact, depth is reached without that “extra” flavor. However, that “flavor” is needed by most souls… 🙂 I realize that now… I am always learning…

Best wishes!

Spiritual Efforts: Spinning the discuss of self realization

We have heard that phrase many times. What does spinning the discuss mean?
It has been said that by using this discuss we can “cut the heads of all demons.” 🙂

The discus is one of the 4 main ornaments of Vishnu. Baba mentions that it actually belongs to Brahmins.
Many will go into it as a drill to practice 108 times in the cycle of time:
“Today I am a Brahmin, tomorrow an angel then a Deity, then a devotee to start all over again in the “I am a Brahmin” line.” Now do it 107 times …

Repeating that endlessly does not accomplish anything other than getting the mind busy for some time before boredom takes over.

In previous articles it has been shared that when thoughts come up in the mind, we make them stronger when we go into them with further additions and thoughts which will bring feelings which in turn will make those thoughts stronger. That is a cycle.

If you see or have experienced depression, you will recognize that pattern of thoughts which we are unable to let go. Just thoughts that are capable of changing our mood and dictate our lives.

The easiest way to get out of that sorrowful “loop” is to think on something else which will bring our full attention. Until we are not aware of those thoughts which are managing our life, we will not be able to counteract them.

That is why, observing the self is so important. Part of that is to watch the thoughts. We do not need to do anything, because watching brings its own “doing.” We will realize how our thoughts and our mood change and then all we need to do is observe ourselves and be aware when those thoughts come again. Once we watch them, those wasteful thoughts lose power in us, unless we give them the “gasoline” of our feelings. This is the easy way to get out of that loop, besides turning the TV on or “escaping” in a superfluous conversation with someone.

Another way of “cutting the heads of those demons,” is by using th discuss of self-realization.
Those wasteful thoughts will come up. Some of them will be very strong, thus we need to get out of the “track” of that song, by using thoughts in movement, as we bring ourselves to our unlimited nature, thus; taking our awareness out of the current, limited, wasteful issue.

If that spinning have some feelings associated with it, then naturally we will make that experience stronger.
This is just merely imitating what a wasteful thought does when we make them stronger through feelings and further thoughts, hopes and what ifs… 🙂

Spinning the discuss have the added benefit of remembrance in it. We are remembering who we are in the unlimited and taking ourselves away from the limited situation.
We cannot suppress thinking nor run away of those sorrowful thoughts by entertaining ourselves. We must confront them, but this is not a “fight.”

This is the understanding of the nature of thoughts.
There is a stream of thoughts. I cannot stop them, but I can re-direct them.

As my experience of peace through yoga becomes stronger, our thoughts will naturally “slow down.” That will give us the impression of “peace of mind.”